Punk Kid with a Drill

[mattp]

Question: has this mythical "punk kid with a drill" we hear about so much actually proven to be a real threat?

 

There was a climber who came on here asking what kind of drill to buy and saying he was going to use it for descending from climbs and several worried about it but how often has this actually happened? Aren't the vast majority of those placing bolts, if not nearly all of them, climbers with several years' rock climbing experience and a minimum of 30 years old?

[PJM]

I really hope they have many years of experience, wisdom and some age under there belt. The last thing we need is rock with butt-ass-loads of bolt holes and property owners pissed off.

[G-spotter]

Many older trad routes in the 90s near Kelowna were retrobolted by the prototypical "punk kids with a drill", who learned to climb in a gym and ventured outside with Dad's hilti to make "first ascents". The guidebook provides an amusing commentary.

[Toast]

Given the hardware isn't cheap, I can think of a lot of other things a real kid would spend his hard earned allowance on (gum, candy, sugary drinks, bottle rockets, video games, pot...)

[Crillz]

Given the hardware isn't cheap, I can think of a lot of other things a real kid would spend his hard earned allowance on (gum, candy, sugary drinks, bottle rockets, video games, pot...)

 

What about Booze?

"Hey mister, can you do me a favor?"

[summerprophet]

Matt,

While I most recently coined the phrase, I certainly was not the first. here is my take on the matter.

 

While real world bolting situations are for the most part experienced climbers submitting their cash and hard work to equip a route. Anyone who has developed a climbing area can attest to the fact that it is hard, filty work.

 

The issue is that internet forums are not real world, and anyone without the knowledge or skill can attempt to get that information without learning under the leadership of someone more experienced.

 

I remember, not that long ago, rockclimbing was learned under the guidance of the previous generation, with the understanding that the tradition would be carried on when it was your turn. Gym climbing and the urbanization of the sport has changed this tradition, and

 

I think a lot of us still have our cards pretty close to our chest handing out information on a forum where it can easily be misinterpreted by a fledgling climber. Not that that is a bad thing mind you, greater good and all that.....

 

But in bolting especially, it is damn expensive to do correctly, and not that much cheaper to do poorly. In addition it is a buttload of work, and not near as fun as a day out climbing.

 

I kind of view it as sailing around the world, something a lot of people inquire about, and would love to know the details, but very few are about to pony up the cash, time and dedication to actually persue such endevors.

 

(sidenote: I never responded to the discussion this grew from, firstly, because I didn't want to provide more ammo to those with inflamatory responses, and secondly because good information continued to trickle in. I am pretty sure those who know me and/or climb with me know I am not about to go grid bolting anything. I am a trad climber at heart. I don't have the eye for sport routes, and the bolts I place are generally top anchors or face climbs to get to the cracks.)

 

 

[mattp]

Prophet, I was indeed stimulated to raise this question by your thread and I thought it better for a separate topic as you might still get some good information trickling in on that one.

 

In my view it is counterproductive to prevent the flow of information about how to do it right, and I'm glad that someone can now search on the internet for "how to develop a sport climb" and they will get some information. Whether they are a punk kid or not, I don't think a general difficulty getting information will dissuade somebody who wants to go out and put up routes. If anything, the opposite may be more likely to be true. Given access to information, they'll learn more about how to do it the right way and consider the amount of work and time and money involved. Also, a lack of information will more likely serve as a deterrent to the MORE thoughtful bolter rather than the less thoughtful one.

 

The danger in discussing these matters on cc.com has more to do with the personal attack, misinformation, and public spectacle that we all so frequently see here.

[shapp]

punk kids? or punk middle-aged dudes with drills? Think Spring Mt. Oregon bolting. Older does not equal wiser in some cases.

[Bug]

If you do a search on the "punk kid" referenced above, you may want to revise your assumptions of (near)infallibility.

I tried to reason with him and offered to take him out.

He genuinely scares me in that I am worried for his life and for the life or lives he may well take in his forays into the realities of climbing. Perhaps he will survive and become a true hard core but the early process has endangered lives other than his own. I have seen no hint of recognition of these concerns on his part.

[JoshK]

I kind of view it as sailing around the world, something a lot of people inquire about, and would love to know the details, but very few are about to pony up the cash, time and dedication to actually persue such endevors.

 

Damn, I only wish I could sail around the world for how little it costs (relatively) to bolt! Raise the main sail and bring me a !

[marc_leclerc]

The people to be afraid of are the guys who are the typical '5.12 in the gym' climbers. I used to be like that and me and my friends thaought we would be doing favoursr by bolting all the classic trad routes and grid bolting every rock we could find. luckily I was too poor to actually do this.. phew!

[kevbone]

or punk middle-aged dudes with drills? Think Spring Mt. Oregon bolting. Older does not equal wiser in some cases.

 

Well said. I have climbed there and personaly climbed several routes on gear that were completely bolted. Kevin (developer) is in his late 40's.

[sobo]

If you do a search on the "punk kid" referenced above, you may want to revise your assumptions of (near)infallibility.

I tried to reason with him and offered to take him out.

He genuinely scares me in that I am worried for his life and for the life or lives he may well take in his forays into the realities of climbing. Perhaps he will survive and become a true hard core but the early process has endangered lives other than his own. I have seen no hint of recognition of these concerns on his part.

Are you talking about Jamin? Whatever happened to him anyway? Did he survive his last outing? A check of his last post shows he was still looking for bits for his rocpecker.

[Bug]

Last I heard he was in Ellensburg.

Maybe he is bolting the west ridge of Stuart.

 

[powderhound]

I have a buddy that placed his first bolt around 15. Since than he has put out two guides and bolted over 250 routes, he is now 23.

[AlpineK]

Any construction tool can lead to misuse. I've only been minimally involved in bolting, but I do have a lot of practical experience with tool like chainsaws. They sell chainsaws to anybody that hands over cash or a credit card, but you can't just buy one and automatically know what you're doing. If you intend to climb with a chainsaw without real experience you can really fuck shit up.

 

Using any tool is best done by gaining hands on experience with guidance from somebody who already has real life experience. Reading a manual or an online discussion might help a bit, but it falls far short of real life learning.

 

Like anything that is subject to public view it shouldn't be done by a punk or an old fart without experience.

 

You don't get experience by reading.

[rob]

If you do a search on the "punk kid" referenced above, you may want to revise your assumptions of (near)infallibility.

I tried to reason with him and offered to take him out.

He genuinely scares me in that I am worried for his life and for the life or lives he may well take in his forays into the realities of climbing. Perhaps he will survive and become a true hard core but the early process has endangered lives other than his own. I have seen no hint of recognition of these concerns on his part.

Are you talking about Jamin? Whatever happened to him anyway? Did he survive his last outing? A check of his last post shows he was still looking for bits for his rocpecker.

 

He found god. See post on NWFudgePackers.net

[builder206]

Is that whole site all Cafe Sensitivo like that? (except when they are arguing over stove boil times)

[rob]

They love avocados over there, it's true

[builder206]

"The big problem with tools is, owning them can fool you into thinking you know how to use them."

[sobo]

If you do a search on the "punk kid" referenced above, you may want to revise your assumptions of (near)infallibility.

I tried to reason with him and offered to take him out.

He genuinely scares me in that I am worried for his life and for the life or lives he may well take in his forays into the realities of climbing. Perhaps he will survive and become a true hard core but the early process has endangered lives other than his own. I have seen no hint of recognition of these concerns on his part.

Are you talking about Jamin? Whatever happened to him anyway? Did he survive his last outing? A check of his last post shows he was still looking for bits for his rocpecker.

 

He found god. See post on NWFudgePackers.net

oh Dog.

[rob]

"The big problem with tools is, owning them can fool you into thinking you know how to use them."

 

Does this apply to the penis?

[sobo]

for some it does. I have one, but my kids are adopted.

[rob]

Oops, I'm not supposed to spray in here.

 

Damn, I'm like a tomcat

[sobo]

well, we know how to "fix" tomcats around here...