Message from Barrabes.com

[jja]

What do we think about this ??

 

 

At Barrabes.com the New Year means new projects and ideas. But, how can

we talk about such projects without first offering an explanation to

those clients who have, no doubt, felt offended by the rise in price on

certain products and the lack of stock on others?

 

During the last few months, several manufacturers of outdoor equipment

have ceased to supply us, while others have forced us to increase prices

on the products sold to the USA and the UK. Hence, some of the products

which were previously available, without difficulty, no longer appear on

our website and yet they are available if purchased from other parts of

the world. In the same way, our publicity has been refused by some of

the most important mountaineering and climbing magazines in the

aforementioned countries.

 

More than anyone, we want to be able to offer our clients the widest

range of products, at the most competitive prices and with the best

service possible, and it is hard to understand how this can pose a

threat to any free market. However, the pressure we have found ourselves

subject to, during the last few months has forced us to change our sales

policy. And this has proved to be detrimental for everyone, to you and

to us.

 

The wealth of experience accumulated over 20 years of selling

mountaineering equipment, has made us come to realize that the way in

which worldwide distribution is structured seriously conditions the

customer's capacity to gain access to the best products. To such a point

that only those products, which already have established networks as

well as a number of intermediaries, are offered to the ultimate client.

 

Faced with this situation, we have taken on an ambitious project;

OPEN-MINDED <http://www.barrabes.com/openminded/openminded.htm>'>http://www.barrabes.com/openminded/openminded.htm>'>http://www.barrabes.com/openminded/openminded.htm> , A

Project for Uncovering Brands aims to shine light on the best brands of

mountaineering equipment in the world with the best quality-price ratio.

Brands, which are not necessarily the most, well known and whose main

problem lies in trying to find good distributors on the main markets.

Through this project we aim to become a direct link between such high

quality brands and the market, avoiding in this way all traditional

intermediaries and achieving an exceptional price. At OPEN-MINDED

<http://www.barrabes.com/openminded/openminded.htm> we offer brands,

which have decades of experience in the mountaineering sector, many of

which are considered to be among the best in their sector, at a

worldwide level.

 

HAGLÖFS <http://www.barrabes.com/openminded/haglofs/haglofs.htm> is an

example of such a brand and has placed its trust in Barrabes.com to

distribute its entire range of outdoor products in the USA. It is no

coincidence that it is also Scandinavia's largest outdoor clothing

manufacturer and one of the world's most experienced technical outdoor

brands.

 

OPEN-MINDED <http://www.barrabes.com/openminded/openminded.htm> is more

than a project; it is a philosophy that we believe in, and above all, a

new way of understanding the distribution of mountaineering products.

 

[j_b]

we want to be able to offer our clients the widest range of products, at the most competitive prices and with the best service possible, and it is hard to understand how this can pose a threat to any free market.

 

welcome to the real world economy!

[COL._Von_Spanker]

Notice the lack of La Sportiva on their US sales site.

[Dr_Flash_Amazing]

The lack of La Sportiva goods via barrabes is the biggest suckass event in recent memory. "Free" market, indeed.

[J_Kirby]

Its all good as long as I can still get my Aces for less than half of retail. Viva la worldwide marketplace.

[Pencil_Pusher]

JJA, where did you get this Barrabes quote from? Barrabes Openminded

Edited for tone, cascadeclimber gives a good link for this topic.

 

-----------------------------------------------------------

Barrabes rules.

 

They have opted to serve our interests rather than BD and other companies. How is it an ice axe made in the USA is sold here for $250 and also sold via Barrabes for $120? And then BD gets mad as hell and cuts Barrabes off??? Retail stores can't sell some manufacturers brands without first signing a contract with the manufacturer saying THEY WONT SELL BELOW A CERTAIN PRICE. Price fixing at its best.

 

Barrabes is pledging allegiance to its customers which is an exceptional stance to take in todays market. That mountaineering magazines will not accept Barrabes advertising is another shameful disgrace for our (USA) "free market".

 

Edited January 17, 2003 by Pencil_Pusher

[freeclimb9]

Pencil Neck,

blame US retailers who've complained to US distributors who in turn pressured non-US retailers. Don't lay it on manufacturers because it makes no difference to them who the middleman is.

[Winter]

Actually I think its BD, as the US distributor for other companies, that has come down hard on the Euro web retailers. BD, I believe, has also come down hard on the Euros for undercutting BDs retail price on their own gear. There has been a lot of discussion on this board and others, and I haven't seen anyone else involved other than BD, although I'm sure they're out there.

[Pencil_Pusher]

When you call me pencilneck it kinda makes me feel tingly all over.

[Dr_Flash_Amazing]

Wa ha ha ha ha ha!

 

Oh, shit, that's priceless!

 

[jja]

JJA, where did you get this Barrabes quote from? I could not find it on their website. Could you paste a link?

 

I didn't get it from the website - they sent me an email, I'm on their list.

 

You know I patronize the local shops as much as the next guy, In fact I recently paid a lot more than I needed to get a pair of boots, because I wanted to try on a lot of different models. And Jeff at FF spent a lot of time with me, and I didn't mind spending 100 bucks more, because I felt the service was worth it. But why the hell should I not buy ice tools or other stuff that requires no service on line.

 

Capatilism ain't pretty, people get hurt, life sux, get over it.

[CascadeClimber]

In some cases, retail prices in Europe are lower than wholesale prices in the US. Even for gear made in the US.

 

There are a lot of excuses made by the manufacturers for this, but it comes down to two things:

 

1. The supplier-customer relationship in the outdoor products industry is backwards, with manufacturers telling their customers (the shops) what to do, evening threatening them.

 

2. The cost of a product is determined solely by what the customer is willing to pay. Manufacturing and overhead costs determine whether a company can compete, but not the selling price. So as long as we keeping buying Cobras at $300 each, that's what they will cost. Same with rock shoes, screws, etc.

 

This has been extensively hashed out over the last couple years, ever since this post BD employee Chris Grover on the Couloir BBS (I saved the original page before it was removed):

 

BD Response to Pricing Disparities

 

There is also some additional info on my site here:

 

U.S. Gear Prices on CascadeClimber.com

 

-L

 

 

[cracked]

I am on Barrabes' mailing list. For some f*&^ed up reason, when I got to their website on my computer, the prices of rock shoes is comparable to the prices in the US. When I went home over the holidays, I checked their website using my father's computer (he is not on their list), and the prices are half of what they cost off of my machine!!!!! Anybody have any explainations?

[COL._Von_Spanker]

They have recently updated the site to have sections for your location, which they didn't used to have, they just had a currency converter. It probably recognized your IP address, or has some sort of cookie. You can probably delete the cookie, though in the end you'll robably be charged the same.

[catbirdseat]

I am on Barrabes' mailing list. For some f*&^ed up reason, when I got to their website on my computer, the prices of rock shoes is comparable to the prices in the US. When I went home over the holidays, I checked their website using my father's computer (he is not on their list), and the prices are half of what they cost off of my machine!!!!! Anybody have any explainations?

 

They found out you were on CC.com and raised prices accordingly.

[arlen]

Do they really sign a contract that says the retailer won't charge a lower regular price? An actual contract to that effect is illegal price fixing. Most times it's "independent parallel action" without evidence of an agreement that goes on.

 

If there's blame to lay, IMHO it's in the distribution model, not directly on the manufacturers. I often hear that distributors won't deliver stock orders if retailers carry "other" brands, charge less than MSRP, etc. I also hear that it's US advertising (e.g. that Petzl catalog next to the toilet) and our peculiar tendency to work the warranty system that convinces the gear companies to raise prices. And it's a couple stages of distributors that absorb that cost and extract the margin to pay it. That's all anecdotal, though--howcome we never hear much from industry types--especially in the distribution chain? Until we do, I guess I'll remain ignorant and miffed.

[COL._Von_Spanker]

The same rules don't apply for international business. For example, La Sportiva Europe and La Sportiva America are two distinctly different companies, though they share a name. So when La Sportiva america see's it's customers buying from european companies who buy from La Sportiva Europe they see loss of business. That is why if you buy lasportiva's in europe the warranty isn't covered in the states.

[thelawgoddess]

Capatilism ain't pretty, people get hurt, life sux, get over it.

[Jens]

They have recently updated the site to have sections for your location, which they didn't used to have, they just had a currency converter. It probably recognized your IP address, or has some sort of cookie. You can probably delete the cookie, though in the end you'll robably be charged the same.

______________________

Wow, that sucks bad. I've heard of other such related schemes with climbing gear.

Also as somebody pointed out earlier, they will keep charging us what we are willing to pay- whether it be $169 for gloves, 146$ for rock slippers, or $300 for a single ice tool.

 

[texplorer]

Why don't we start our own climber's company and make our own gear to rival the big guys. We can call it . .. .hmmmm. . . .Recreational Equiment Inc. . . oh wait. Why don't we get really big and then start selling little key chain biners to soccer moms too.

[Pencil_Pusher]

I guess I was one of the ignorant ones. Then I got schooled. So I'm taking this marketing class and relate the little Barrabes/BD schpeel we have here in cyber-wonderland. Prof gave a good reasoning (in a nutshell, as I understood it):

Company in business to make profit.

Customer looking to maximize their own "profit".

Both want the best price for themselves. If customer can take profit from company, they're happy for the good deal. Likewise for the company who is in business to earn a profit.

Skip to the internet. So there's some sort of "grey" area where the manufacturer will sell to a different country at their market value provided there is little "cross-talk" between the two, meaning the two different markets (in this case, the US and Europe) won't interact much. So this was probably true for pre-Barrabes. Then the Spaniards got wise and alot of BD ice tool sales went to Barrabes instead of BD. The "cross-talk" became huge. Apparently (learning through the cost-accounting class) head sales and marketing people are more inclined to sell their product at a loss to obtain "market share" whereas the accountants are always looking at ways to maximize profits and are wary of such "sales with a net loss". From the marketing and sales point of view, BD (assuming they sold at cost/loss to Barrabes) may have been trying to establish or maintain a foothold in the European climbing market. This is pure speculation, but it's more meant to show a huge grey area rather than a $120Barrabes and $250Black Diamond USA black-and-white deal. I doubt any company would be so willing to lower their prices so willingly... again it's both sides (company/customer) wanting the maximum profit for themselves. By cutting off Barrabes, there is no more "cross-talk" and they get better contribution margins on their tools. So maybe BD was able to sell at loss/cost because of their profits from US sales?

As arlen pointed out, the distribution model... heck, before last week I had never heard of such nor considered the true implications of "cutting out the middleman", as good as it sounds in the frequent sales pitches we hear.

 

[fleblebleb]

Hah, that's sweet irony

 

In other words you think we've been subsidizing French climbers when we've bought BD gear.

[Pencil_Pusher]

No, no, no... not "in other words." Don't put words in my mouth. Just what I typed above.

Or, from the Cost Accounting book, "In other industries, the pricing policy is based on excess capacity and differing elasticities of demand; a higher price is charged to the core market and lower prices to secondary markets. In order for this to work, there must be no arbitrage. Arbitrage occurs when the customers who purchase the goods at the lower price are able to resell it to other customers." (Cost Management 3rd Ed., Hansen & Mowen, pg. 790)

I've been pretty happy with the learning this quarter, both in this and marketing. Beats the gobbly-goop, fluffy management terms.

[arlen]

Pencil_Pusher said:

 

"... and lower prices to secondary markets."

 

Hey, that doesn't sound like dumping at all.

[Desey]

this is one subject I have been very interested in... I just bought a ton of gear that I would have paid over $$1400 for here in U.S. that I got from 2 sources in Europe for $750. this was2pairs of boots, axe, tools, etc... would say that I maximized my profit and that is what I care about.