Everest in the news for all the wrong reasons

[Bosterson]

Is anyone else extremely mind@#$%ed by the absurd rhetoric being spewed out regarding the Sherpa strike on Everest? It's bad enough that Sherpas are treated like porters, that they don't make purchasing-power-adjusted wages relative to western guides, that they do the vast majority of dangerous work (ferrying loads back and forth through the Khumbu Icefall, fixing all the ropes in advance of climbing season), but now the very legitimate labor issue at the heart of this is being sidelined in the media in favor of the litany of whining from western "climbers" who are disappointed they won't get to be led by the hand up the mountain?

 

“I can’t help but feel that I have let everyone down,” wrote Kent Stewart, an American climber, in a blog post. “If I don’t ever make it to the top of Everest, I’m afraid there will always be a hole in my life, and frankly, that worries me.”

 

NYT article

[ivan]

i've never lost much sleep over the unfulfilled bucket-list aspirations of first-world wankers

[JayB]

 

As far as the Sherpas are concerned, I think the question is not why wealthy first world climbers have been willing to spend a relative pittance to have Sherpas do all of the most dangerous and grueling work for them, but why Sherpas have been willing to accept a relative pittance for doing so for as long as foreigners have been coming to the Himalaya to climb the mountains there.

 

IMO obvious answer is that the Sherpas live in a region where material poverty is endemic and desolating, there are few if any ways to make anything like the money they can by guiding, and there have always been more than enough Sherpas willing to risk their lives guiding in exchange for the opportunity make enough money to significantly reduce the level of material hardship that they or their families will have to endure. Unless and until the majority of Sherpas have opportunities to make a comparable living doing something less risky than chaperoning wealthy foreigners up their mountains, that'll continue to be the case.

 

Ironically enough, the fact that Sherpas are finally starting to demand more pay for the incredible risks that they take is the one and only bit of good news that I could glean from this story. To me that says that perhaps the Sherpa's economic situation has improved enough that 1) they are no longer willing to risk so much for so little, and 2) that they are relatively confident that they can do so without significantly crimping the demand for their services and undermining the primary driver of their increased incomes. I sincerely hope that's the case.

 

 

[Peter_Puget]

3) they can keep new people from entering the workforce

[JayB]

3) they can keep new people from entering the workforce

 

Agreed - but it's easier to do that when the number of Sherpas willing to risk everything for the pay on offer goes down, or the number of wealthy foreigners willing to pay them for the service goes up. If there were throngs of Sherpas clamoring for the privilege of hauling loads over crevasses descending on every expedition I don't think their efforts to keep other Sherpas out of the guiding/portering workforce would be terribly effective.

 

 

[ivan]

sounds like them sherpas need to re-read "the wealth of nations?"

[ScaredSilly]

Another twist:

 

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/world/machetewielding-maoist-sherpas-threatened-to-attack-climbers/story-fnb64oi6-1226898077050#

[Bosterson]

"Maoist??"

[JayB]

sounds like them sherpas need to re-read "the wealth of nations?"

 

Or maybe just this one:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Goose_That_Laid_the_Golden_Eggs

 

Time will tell.

[mountainsandsound]

The expeditions are packing up and leaving, not because anyone has closed the mountain to climbing, but because the Sherpas will not work.

 

In a pursuit where self-reliance and independence are supposedly paramount, the show can't go on because the Sherpas won't fix the ladders and lines for the "climbers". Ironic.

[rob]

sounds like them sherpas need to re-read "the wealth of nations?"

 

Or maybe just this one:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Goose_That_Laid_the_Golden_Eggs

 

Time will tell.

 

More like, "The Goose that laid the golden egg but only gave a few pennies of it to the farmer and kept the rest for the kids down the street who have rich parents"

 

I mean, they live in a poor country! They should be GRATEFUL to get a pittance for their labors. They're lucky we give them anything at all!!! Ungrateful bastards.

[JasonG]

Ah yes, the Maoists.

 

When we hiked up into the Khumbu during their revolution a few years back, they shook us down for a "donation".....at gunpoint. They did provide us with a receipt though, which was nice. We were able to show it later in our trip when another group of Maoists asked for another "donation". The funny thing was that the suggested "donation" varied by nationality. US citizens were asked for the largest "donation", and sometimes were given a bonus beating as well (happened just before our trip according to the State Dept travel warning). We were Canadians for a few weeks until we left the rebel controlled areas. Sullen youths with AKs were more unsettling than I was expecting.

 

There is a lot of anger in Nepal (much of it justified), not very far below the surface. The average tourists aren't the ones to blame, however.

[chris]

The expeditions are packing up and leaving, not because anyone has closed the mountain to climbing, but because the Sherpas will not work.

 

In a pursuit where self-reliance and independence are supposedly paramount, the show can't go on because the Sherpas won't fix the ladders and lines for the "climbers". Ironic.

 

I think its also a timing issue - once the route was re-established on the lower mountain, would there be enough time to acclimatize and make a summit attempt before the monsoon? I wonder.

[Whatcomboy]

They should organize a union and demand $15 minimum wage.

[KaiLarson]

All of this information about Everest should make it clear that they are doing it wrong.

 

The Nepalese government should just build a cable car to the top, along with a rotating restaurant/hotel/casino on the summit. There could be an escalator option for those who want to "climb" the mountain. A day spa with an oxygen bar would also likely be popular.

 

For an additional fee, you could be awarded a trophy for a "first ascent" within your particular category: (i.e. first ascent by a transgendered paraplegic over the age of 40; first ascent by an investment banker who played lacrosse in high school; first ascent by a female Prius driver who votes Republican, etc.)

 

If climbing Everest has just become a money driven activity, divorced from its climbing roots, this really is the next logical step. Much safer and more lucrative for the native people, and the clients would be happier too.

 

 

[JayB]

sounds like them sherpas need to re-read "the wealth of nations?"

 

Or maybe just this one:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Goose_That_Laid_the_Golden_Eggs

 

Time will tell.

 

More like, "The Goose that laid the golden egg but only gave a few pennies of it to the farmer and kept the rest for the kids down the street who have rich parents"

 

I mean, they live in a poor country! They should be GRATEFUL to get a pittance for their labors. They're lucky we give them anything at all!!! Ungrateful bastards.

 

As I said above, the real question isn't why guide services and/or independent climbers paid them a relative pittance for the difficult and dangerous work that they do, but why - until recently, at least - they were willing to do so.

 

Why do you think that was the case?

[genepires]

 

As I said above, the real question isn't why guide services and/or independent climbers paid them a relative pittance for the difficult and dangerous work that they do, but why - until recently, at least - they were willing to do so.

 

Why do you think that was the case?

 

Is this a trick question? Because the work takes them from nepalese poverty to nepalese middle class real quick. The wealth is relative. what is a pittance to you is a lot of money to them.

 

I never did the finances for a guide service but did hear something from a reputable source. He said that the everest trips did not net that much profit after all the expenses where paid out. the everest gigs acted as a pinnacle that the clients could strive for. Along the way, the clients would take a lot of profitable education courses and other profitable high altitude trips. This is what kept the business in action.

Maybe this was all a line to keep the worker monkeys in check.

So yeah, clients pay a lot for the trip and whities don't pay the sherpas as much as white guides, but there may be a financial reason for such. Damn I sound like a conservative republic-turd.

[JasonG]

The Nepalese government (and my guess is that it is a few officials with connections) has the highest profit margin on Everest climbs- i.e. the government doesn't provide much for the size of fee it collects. This type of high fee/poor service/widespread corruption arrangement is the way things go in Nepal, despite the Maoist uprising that was an oblique response to such abuses. Old habits die hard.

 

Even at the new reduced rate, the fees charged by the government are probably the single largest expense on any expedition: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/feb/14/nepal-slashes-cost-climbing-mount-everest

[Rad]

I was disappointed in the NYTimes piece. The events of this year need to be viewed in the context of the Steck incident last year and a long history of wealth disparities and tensions across the client/guide/sherpa caste system.

 

The best article I've seen on the Everest mess is the interview in R&I: http://www.rockandice.com/lates-news/enough-of-misinformation-the-truth-of-everest

 

The last question and its answer say it all:

 

"Do you think any teams will climb the South Col route without Sherpa support this season?

 

No, highly unlikely unless they are true climbers. Certainly not a commercial expedition."

[BirdDog]

“I can’t help but feel that I have let everyone down,” wrote Kent Stewart, an American climber, in a blog post. “If I don’t ever make it to the top of Everest, I’m afraid there will always be a hole in my life, and frankly, that worries me.”

 

First world problems in a third world country. Stewart doesn't seem bothered by the hole left in the families of the dead sherpas.

 

 

[genepires]

taking one quote (one that fits your paradigm) and posting that as proof of your claim is so very fox news. yes there MAY be anglos who are acting poorly, but your quote is not proof of such. Who knows how this Ken Stewart really feels. This is one quote out of a possible longer discussion about his sadness for the sherpas. We do not know his true feelings based on this one quote. This was just his feelings about the missed opportunity to climb a dream and I am sure that most reasonable people would feel some sadness for not being able to climb after spending so much money/invested time as well as feel sadness for the dead sherpas.

 

And what is failed to either read or share by the OP in this article is other quotes such as:

 

“I have a great plan,” he said. “I am going to go home and hug my 12-year-old. I’ve seen numerous things in my life, but nothing was ever driven home as to watch those guys on cables being brought down. “

 

Heading home, “there’s just a tug of war going on within me,” he added. “I have put years of my life into this. But I am going home alive. I think I’m done with the mountains. I’m going to cherish what I have and count my blessings.”

 

So yeah, all those white rich climbers are ass-hats. Not. get off the high horse and see the world for what it might really be.....mostly full of good people just trying to get by.

 

 

Edited May 6, 2014 by genepires

[Bosterson]

Please reread my post. I put in that quote as a reference to the quality of the news coverage. There is a complicated and important discussion to be had regarding the labor issues at stake here. The news, however, has boiled it down to "the Sherpas quit" and have proceeded to quote a bunch of Westerners whining about it, as well as repeatedly noting that they may not get their money back. The question of why the Sherpas were doing more dangerous work for less pay in the first place, and whether that should be perpetuated, is not really being covered now that the Sherpas have walked out.

 

To be fair, that one article was extremely idiotic and I was sounding off. Some of the previous coverage has been better.

 

This is the real crux of the issue:

 

“We had a historic accident, and now we’ve got a historic moment, where we could close down the whole season,” [british expedition leader] Mr. Crampton said. “I feel like I’m doing something I should have done a long time ago.”

 

NY Times

 

Also crucial is the issue of how global warming is affecting mountaineering.

 

A few years ago, ClimateWire interviewed a Sherpa who had participated in Sir Edmund Hillary's historic expedition and, upon returning to Base Camp in 2011, was shocked by how much had changed since 1953. He predicted the end of snow on Everest within the next few decades.

 

The Atlantic

 

And the most comprehensive analysis I've seen so far was provided by, natch, Jon Krakauer.

 

For the foreign climbers, to go home now will mean forfeiting most or all of the fifty to ninety thousand dollars they have spent to be guided up Everest. For the Sherpas who make the guided ascents possible, however, to quit now, after only a few weeks’ wages, will be an even greater economic sacrifice, relatively speaking.

 

[genepires]

 

For the foreign climbers, to go home now will mean forfeiting most or all of the fifty to ninety thousand dollars they have spent to be guided up Everest. For the Sherpas who make the guided ascents possible, however, to quit now, after only a few weeks’ wages, will be an even greater economic sacrifice, relatively speaking.

 

This quote doesn't help your argument that the sherpa are not paid fairly. relatively.

 

BTW, I am not in disagreement about the wages of sherpa. they deserve more. they should live like kings afterwards, relatively.

 

Speaking of that, it would be interesting to see a comparison relatively between sherpa and guides. compare nepalese currency to dollars in buying power. Willing to bet it would be relatively close. (yeah I know that sherpa are exposed to more risk, factor that in somehow)

 

maybe the reason you don't see much media coverage about the wages of the sherpa is because it boils down to what the market will bear and the theory of supply and demand with regards to labor. The guide services can only charge so much and as long as there are adequate supply of sherpa, the wages will be what they are. It is not some grand scheme of businesses trying to screw over the locals which would be a good story. but the story is not there.

 

Imagine a labor union for sherpa. That would be cool.

 

 

[genepires]

My idea about comparing the relative wages between the 2 cultures in support of the clients is based on something I read about the sherpa guides jump to nepalese middle class with the work. The western guides that work in nepal that I know are no where close to middle class based on the nepal season alone. Maybe half way there when one includes the other 9 months working.

 

Of course, that sherpa wage comment I read could be untrue. not verified in any way, FWIW.

[Bosterson]

 

For the foreign climbers, to go home now will mean forfeiting most or all of the fifty to ninety thousand dollars they have spent to be guided up Everest. For the Sherpas who make the guided ascents possible, however, to quit now, after only a few weeks’ wages, will be an even greater economic sacrifice, relatively speaking.

 

This quote doesn't help your argument that the sherpa are not paid fairly. relatively.

 

I used that quote from the Krakauer article because it's discussing the fact that the Sherpas are not quitting - they're going on strike, forgoing wages for a labor rights issue. That said, all the quote literally implies is that the people who pay to get guided up Everest are waaaay richer than Sherpas, relatively speaking. It's not saying that $5000 for a Sherpa is worth more than $50-90k in a western country, it's saying that rich western clients are more easily able to forego a huge amount of money in a wealthy western country than a Sherpa is able to forego a much smaller amount of money in a poor country. In other words, it's saying that the Sherpas are still barely scraping by, as one season could make or break them.

 

I don't think that guiding companies are trying to "screw over" the Sherpas - quite the reverse, actually, since look how many companies stepped up and cancelled their seasons (which will affect their business, their reputations, and their bottom lines) when the the Sherpas went on strike.

 

That said, this is still an issue of rich people operating in a poor country, and the labor tangle that entails. Don't think that Sherpas are crossing the Khumbu Icefall dozens of times because they "love climbing" and it's a "good job" - they need the money.