Multi day ski mountaineering packs

[tvashtarkatena]

CCWs are old school in a good way, and not all that heavy. I do wonder about the lack of back support, though (they just come with a foam sheet, unless I read the specs wrong). I took the back support out of my current Marmot pack and it sucked horribly under heavy loads. It's back in, needless to say. Well worth the minimal extra weight.

[tvashtarkatena]

I am in fear that I'm not kewl enough to sport a Cilogear pack, however. Perhaps if I accessorized with a personally meaningful ankle tat and a Credence stache.

[DPS]

CCWs are old school in a good way, and not all that heavy. I do wonder about the lack of back support, though (they just come with a foam sheet, unless I read the specs wrong).

My buddy Nick has a CCW Chaos and it only has a folded foam pad for a frame. On steep rock on Mt Hunter he complained he felt his pack was 'cutting him in half'.

[tvashtarkatena]

OK, scratch that one. Skiing in two parts is probably harder than tely.

 

Jebus, I'm being whittled down to the Cilo - between that and the required earlobe discs, this could get expensive.

 

Edited September 12, 2013 by tvashtarkatena

[Jason4]

Haha, I'll admit that I've had an ironically not ironic mustache in some of my climbing adventures since I got my Cilo pack but I'm currently clean shaved, with nothing wrapped around my ankle except dress socks (maybe hipster argyle, I was half asleep when I put them on) and the only personally meaningful tat is ink covered by my dress shirt.

 

Cilo packs have downsides, I'm not saying that they are the best out there and I know that I would want a couple of things done differently on mine but my pack fits your description of what you want perfectly. I almost bought another Cilo pack in the spring when a 30L worksack popped up in the classifieds. I'd be very happy to get that for a day tripper. The 30:30 doesn't do much for me since it has volume near the 45L but with the lightweight suspension of the 30L which is backwards from what I want, I want to carry heavy skis and metal junk strapped to the outside with just a bit of space for a puffy and lunch.

[rob]

Jebus, I'm being whittled down to the Cilo - between that and the required earlobe discs, this could get expensive.

 

bear in mind, the cilogear packs are pretty lightweight (I would not haul one up a rock face)

[tvashtarkatena]

We don't haul packs up rock faces. We've got haul bags for that action, and no pack, no matter how well built, is going to take much of that abuse. We just pack gear in them to the base, where they're caches until we can retrieve them, either on or with our shields.

[wfinley]

I toggle between a 50L BD Predator and a 75L Cilogear Worksack. The BD pack is a bit small for anything longer than 1 night in the winter. The Cilogear is good for hauling tons of crap - and if you pull out the plastic backing it packs down small enough for climbing and skiing.

 

Here are some pix of the 75L with ridiculous amounts of gear attached.

[dave schultz]

The BD pack is a bit small for anything longer than 1 night in the winter.

 

What do you take on an overnight that requires over 50L of stuff?

[tvashtarkatena]

Some good recommendations here. I finally stitched up my old pack - at 2.8 lbs n comfy under load I didn't see enough of an improvement out there yet to warrant a switch this year, and the blow outs weren't as bad as I thought. For hauling to the base I'm just going to get a haul bag - I need one anyway.

[wfinley]

The BD pack is a bit small for anything longer than 1 night in the winter.

 

What do you take on an overnight that requires over 50L of stuff?

 

My -20 bag, pad and tent pretty much take up 1/2 of the 50L pack. Add in puffy, food, ropes and gear and it's unwieldy. If I skimp and go with a 20 degree bag and alpine tent it's fine for 3-5 days... But I really hate being cold.

[JasonG]

I'm glad I read thru this thread. Tumpline!! Love it!

 

Lots of great info here as well. I'm a sucker for a good pack, and am always looking even though I have more good/comfortable/serviceable ones than I care to admit.

[Doug_Hutchinson]

I have both a Cilo30 (regular fabric) and a Cold Cold World Chernobyl (50L) and Chaos (60L) and use them all a lot. I tried to use the Cilo for day ski trips but quickly cut the fabric with my ski edges (carrying A-frame style) and stopped. I effing love CCW packs and use them for everything! They seem old school but are the perfect combination of light, burly and have everything you need and nothing extra. The Chernobyl is my favorite overnight pack for skiing or climbing. CCW packs carry loads really great and Cilos start to hurt after you get over day trip weight or strap on skis IMHO (I know, I know that there are rabid Cilo fans out there who will violently disagree). Trouble with CCWs is I haven't seen them in stores in years so you can't try before your buy. The upside is, since Randy Rackliff sews each one when you order, you can add or subract things like rope straps and pick colors.

[BootsandPants]

Consider looking at an Alpine Threadworks Selkirk. Best "made specifically for skiing" pack that I've used. Well thought out features, and since they're MTO, you can pick and choose what you want/don't want on it. The pack is well worth it imo.

 

Used a cilo for a year as a ski pack and trashed it within a few trips from the edges from carrying (partly my fault I'm sure). Seam grip held it through the end of the season when I replaced it. The AT is still going strong.

[trumpetsailor]

My Cilo 30:30 GS has ~1.9 years on it now (>80 days?), used as a year-round ski and climbing pack for trips up to 3+ days. It's beginning to show its age in a few spots. There are a couple of <5 mm ski edge cuts in the lighter fabric constrained by ripstop, there are a few tiny holes elsewhere , and the stitching on one of the (important) load lifters is coming apart where it and the lid attaches to the pack. Otherwise, it's in good shape. Waterproofing is getting understandably old.

 

I doubt it'll make it through another two winters.

 

I like the pack; more than I liked my old beat-to-death 60L. A Cilo 45 or 60, with the GS modifications, might meet Tvash's requirements?

[kevino]

Consider looking at an Alpine Threadworks Selkirk. Best "made specifically for skiing" pack that I've used. Well thought out features, and since they're MTO, you can pick and choose what you want/don't want on it. The pack is well worth it imo.

 

Used a cilo for a year as a ski pack and trashed it within a few trips from the edges from carrying (partly my fault I'm sure). Seam grip held it through the end of the season when I replaced it. The AT is still going strong.

 

I can second the alpine threadworks pack. I used and abused mine all this past year and it has held up like a champ. Really well designed. So good that two of my ski partners purchased their own after they say mine.

 

Neil does good work and also does customization if you so desire.

 

For what its worth, I've been eyeing some packs from Vaude to try for big ice cragging/winter alpine climbing..

[Jason4]

I like the pack; more than I liked my old beat-to-death 60L. A Cilo 45 or 60, with the GS modifications, might meet Tvash's requirements?

 

What is the GS mod?

[trumpetsailor]

What is the GS mod?

 

At some point, GS stood for "guide service". They add burlier material in places. As a skier, it's most noticeable on the side bottom, where my old pack got a little worn by ski edges when A-framing. The rest of the pack is holding up better than my ~V2-3 60L.

[KevinJ]

I'm constantly struggling with this one, but I'm a gear nut:) Last season I skied a few different multi-day packs. I'm a total newbie, so please take this with a grain of salt....

 

Arctyerx Arrakis 50

I fell in love with this pack right off the bat, but it's not perfect. The bad first. It's heavy at five pounds. Unless you lock down the hip belt sway straps, the belt pops off the pack at the most inopportune times. There are no compressions straps to shrink the pack down. Lastly, although it has a number of exterior attachment points I don't believe they are as flexible as compression straps.

 

The good is pretty good though. It's the most weather worthy pack I've ever owned. The snow tools kangroo pocket is a great size. More than enough for an avy shovel and even a few other bits of gear. I've been known to stuff a wet tent in there and lash my shovel to the outside. The interior of the pack feels well lit because of the whitish coloring which means finding gear is a lot easier. The side access zipper is a bit awkward, but definitely serves it's purpose. I really like the suspension for winter time travel. It doesn't inhibit the breathability of my jacket back panel, and it moves very well. The pack is a pretty good load hauler as well. I'd say max out is around 50 lbs. It's a firm, resilient pack. I use Voile ski straps instead of the nylon for the exterior lashings. It does not like the thicker BD ski straps, but they can be made to work. The lash points make for a huge variety of options. I also love how convenient the roll top is. Press down, roll, clip done. I have no issues leaving this guy outside in bad weather when making camp. I also like that the aluminum stay can be removed for use as a splint or any other make shift need.

 

Be aware that you have to find ways of stabilizing the gear inside if it's loose. The lack of compression makes skiing this guy interesting if your load is moving around inside.

 

Dakine Guide 50

It looks like Dakine won't be offering this pack this year in 50 litre, but is still available in the smaller "poacher". I really liked this pack at first. The Bad: The shoulder straps are pretty anemic for my taste. They need a little beef to hump 50L. The insulated hose routing on the shoulder strap worked pretty good, but was pretty tight. The location of the bladder pocket however, on the out board of the interior, was not cool. It placed a good deal of weight out away from my torso leveraging the suspension. Not a fan. The pocket was also lacking a hook for to attach the bladder to. I ended up keeping my bladder against the back zip panel and just moved or pulled it out when need access to the main compartment. The back panel is very well padded but soaks in moisture like sponge. It froze up on me during a number of overnighters where it was sucking the perspiration moving through my layers during the day. I also had an incident where the aluminum stays punched through the pack floor and speared me a bit while on the move. Bummer. Lastly this guy is not a heavy load hauler. Max I'd load is about 32-35 lbs total. The shovel/probe pocket were a slight bit small but definitely doable as were the Nalgene pockets. Just be sure to pack those guys first, gear in the main compartment presses these pockets out and makes for unhappy moments. This pack does suffer from the anemic strap syndrome that is sweeping the outdoor industry as a whole in an attempt to save weight. But in this case not overly so.

 

The Good: I really liked all the features. Everything from the innovative diagonal ski carry to the helmet carrier were pretty cool. The buckles are very glove/snow friendly and the waist belt has a huge amount size range to accommodate layers. The primary Ice Ax carry system is very cool unless your using bent shaft tools. All the pockets were cool for organizing smaller items and maps. It carries pretty well and skis about the same. The material was my favorite being a strong ballistic nylon that proved to be very abrasion resistant. Except in the areas where the less sturdy grayish nylon is used. This seems to tearout along seams.

 

My climbing partner has been using a Gregory Alpinisto 50 this last season with great success. It's stable and feature rich. I don't like a lack of avy tool pocket, but other than that love the pack. It has the normal Gregory robustness. I just don't think it's a great Ski pack, but it can serve that purpose.

 

On a quick note, I'm not overwhelmed with the REI snow sports lineup. I'm not sure what's going on in this industry, but it feels like the straps get smaller every year and the colors are really going sideways.

 

Right now I'm looking at the Dueter Tour Guide 45, the Osprey Variant 52, and The Mammut Guides as well. Just like stove and tent selection, this is a tough one Hope that helps out a bit.

 

 

 

Edited October 29, 2013 by KevinJ

[Jason4]

An update on my Cilo 45L worksack experience:

I was out on Ruth over the weekend without the split kit so my pack was relatively light. I weighed it when I got back home at 37 pounds without water, I was carrying around 3 liters most of the time so add a few pounds for that too. I'm able to fit everything inside my pack for an overnighter with a glacier crossing except the few things that I want on the outside: crampons, ice axe, picket, and a map. It's clean and narrow and out of the way. I'd actually appreciate the pack being an inch or two wider since I think I might be built a inch or two wider than most of their athletes. I'd go for being narrower but I think it would be easier to adjust the pack.

 

I still find myself wishing for faster access to the interior of the pack even if it's just for pulling out a layer during stops or stashing a layer after dropping off a ridge but I generally like the simple tube and multiple strap options. A voile ski strap fits perfectly on the side to carry skis A-frame style. I also wish there were a couple more D-ring/Tri-slides on the bottom of the pack for the occasion that I want to carry a tent or sleeping pad there. I don't care for the way the brain pocket sits on top without a full load either, it seems like it flops around a lot and I don't see the need for quick release buckles on the back panel side, I'd prefer D-rings/Tri-slides there instead.

[ARBrandon]

An update on my Cilo 45L worksack experience:

I was out on Ruth over the weekend without the split kit so my pack was relatively light. I weighed it when I got back home at 37 pounds without water, I was carrying around 3 liters most of the time so add a few pounds for that too. I'm able to fit everything inside my pack for an overnighter with a glacier crossing except the few things that I want on the outside: crampons, ice axe, picket, and a map. It's clean and narrow and out of the way. I'd actually appreciate the pack being an inch or two wider since I think I might be built a inch or two wider than most of their athletes. I'd go for being narrower but I think it would be easier to adjust the pack.

 

I still find myself wishing for faster access to the interior of the pack even if it's just for pulling out a layer during stops or stashing a layer after dropping off a ridge but I generally like the simple tube and multiple strap options. A voile ski strap fits perfectly on the side to carry skis A-frame style. I also wish there were a couple more D-ring/Tri-slides on the bottom of the pack for the occasion that I want to carry a tent or sleeping pad there. I don't care for the way the brain pocket sits on top without a full load either, it seems like it flops around a lot and I don't see the need for quick release buckles on the back panel side, I'd prefer D-rings/Tri-slides there instead.

 

 

Thanks for the review. I am considering the ski version of their 45L work sack. It has side zipper access and internal organizing for avy tools.

[Water]

Same boat as a lot of you, looking for this chimera of a pack. Unlike my backpacking or just climbing, I'm not sure it truly exists. I actually spent about 50 emails and many hours over two months with a custom backpacking pack designer before they eventually felt they couldn't make what I had in mind--the ski/climbing focus was not to their expertise, though I really liked the materials and features they had on many of their other packs.

 

some reviews:

 

EB 1st Ascent Haines:

Tried this on a lark, good price and advertised as a ski pack from them.

Good: Materials--their laminated ripstop is quite nice.

Bad: Heavy for the size. Has I think 8 zipper tracks on the pack in total. No hipbelt pocket. not enough volume. Shoulder straps and load lifters needed to be re-tightened periodically. Pocket shapes odd, avy gear pocket pretty tight fit.

returned. Maybe EB 1st Ascent clothing is still decent but frankly their gear blows, its kind of franken-designed it seems.

 

Mammut Trion Guide 45 + 7 Backpack

I've had my eye on this for a while and picked it up last year. Has worked well on a variety of trips - rainier climbs, with and w/o skis, long tour days, overnight tours.

Good: Solid materials, reinforced bottom. Ski loops and two sets of compression straps per side. Avy tools pocket is really nice 3/4ths half moon zip style. The pocket itself will fit everything, but my saw and 320mm probe is a little bit of a wiggle to get it in past the zipper--but there is plenty of volumetric space for all avy gear and skins. Solid ax/tool holder system that can be setup without impeding access to rear avy tools pocket. Webbing loops on pocket one can lash crampons to. Fairly clean design.

A side access zipper runs the length of one side and is fantastic for quick access to items in the body of the pack.

Extension collar and lid 'floats' up to accommodate, plenty of extra space that is otherwise hiding. Lid pocket big enough for the miscellaneous kitchen sink of maps/sunscreen/hat/gloves/snacks/phone/etc.

Hip belt has hip-stabilizers (little webbing that can be tightened going from belt to pack). Hydration sleeve with hook to hang, port to exit.

 

Things to improve: No hip belt pocket-sad face. make the lid removeable! Though this mod could easily be done by cutting the flap of fabric that connects the lid to the upper backpanel edge of the pack. No diagonal ski carry or little helmet holder thing.

 

minor/personal quibbles: Shoulder straps don't have much padding, when loaded esp with skis going up rainier, even with weight on hips i noticed.

Maybe make the hipbelt smaller. I'm a 32 waist and like to keep pack weight on my hips. Many packs I've got the waist cinched down to near maximum tightness, its frustrating. This is one of them.

 

Mammut Spindrift Guide Backpack - 2700

Very very similar to above, but here are the differences:

 

• different backpanel setup--more adjustable for torso length. Shoulder straps have much softer/more padding. Hip belt has pocket on one side! But hipbelt itself is kind of odd with some webbing with velcro going under some sheaths with velcro on the hipbelt itself to hold it together. No hip-stabilizers.
  
• Isolated side pocket for skins on one side of pack
  
• Helmet holder little thing with some clips that connect to some tiny loops on the pack.
  
• Main body access zip on the other, except instead of a long vertical zip along edge between side and backpanel, this is shaped like a long U |_____________| so the zipper curves and a flap opens to access the inside. I think the trion side zip is better, less chance of failure. But maybe slightly more difficult to try to pull out something of size if the pack is really loaded
  
• lid is still attached but adds small fleece-lined pocket for sunglasses or goggles, in addition to main lid space. I like this
  
• Ice axe/tool attachment similar but shaft holder has moved off of avy tools pocket and to side of it
  
• No webbing on avy pocket outside to lash crampons to
  
• diagonal ski-carry system
  
• ski loops at base of pack are adjustable, so, on could conceivably secure skis in aframe mode w/o sliding ski, just setting it on pack and tightening the ski loops and compression straps.
  

 

quibbles: Again I am at the tiniest end of the hip spectrum for this, having to crank it down to get it tight without much room to spare, and it seems like this velcro hipbelt thing was having issues/moving a bit.

 

Between the two while I am really fond of the diagonal carry, having a hip belt pocket, etc, I think the Trion Guide is better overall. The Spindrift guide all said and done has just gone a few steps past the 'too much' point as far as buckles, zippers, latches, for my taste, even though I like a lot of the features.

 

 

[jeb013]

Water,

 

Sounds like I am in the same boat as you when it comes to the hip belts. Have you found any packs that really accomodate you?

 

By the time I find a pack that fits my height I am cinching the hip belts all the way down and sometimes that doesn't even seem to be enough. It wears on the body always carrying the load on your shoulders.

 

jeb

 

[Water]

hmm.. not really. I've dealt with the issue on almost every major brand. I guess I've tried some osprey stuff for backpacking and climbing sans skis and those worked well enough.

 

I deal with it on an old Mountainsmith Sting 45 too, which is an absolutely burly awesome pack but again hipbelt barely fits me and the suspension/backpanel for me is on the comfort end of the spectrum with sleeping on cobblestones without a pad.

 

Maybe 3 or 4 years ago I went in and talked to Graham at Cilo gear about a pack, just really to check his operation out. I mentioned I've come to climbing from a backpacking/long distance hiking background, and that I liked to carry the weight on my hips. The cilo gear packs hipbelts looked pretty minimal to me (and I understand why), so didn't seem like something for me to pursue.

 

I spoke with Hyperlite Mountain Gear last year and this fall, they're supposed to be developing a ski pack--I have hopes for it. In the mean time they offer some reinforcements and ski loops for their porter and ice packs.

 

The sad part I wonder, I'm 5'8"/150. Not very big but yet I know guys who are smaller than me. Is it really so much to ask for a hip belt that cinches to a 30inch waist? The range of most seems to be 33-46 or something ridiculous.

[GerritD]

[img:right]http://www.millet.fr/resize/media/declinaisons/905/image/f488x520/MIS1787_0335.jpg[/img]

 

I use the Millet Expedition 65+ and love it for multi day. It does an A-Frame Carry with skis pretty well with one important caveat. When the pack is loaded up for a multi day trip it carries skis fine but when you take all the stuff out it squishes down and the skis wobble around. You can rig up a diagonal carry in that case but it is not ideal.

 

With that one issue pointed out I could not recommend the pack any higher. It is LIGHTER than the CiloGear 45L Work Sack at 1560 grams total (Cilo 45L is 1800g). It also has a single zipper to access the bottom and the straps are comfy. I carried a 90+ lb load for a multi-day trip (embarrassingly ignorant of "light is right") and it worked fine.

 

My pack has been chewed up by rodents, thrown around, dragged over rocks and is still holding up fine. The design seems perfect other than carrying skis unloaded can be a pain as the skis will wobble and potentially bonk the back of your head.

 

I saw Feathered Friends has the pack in stock a few months ago. Other than that it appears a bit hard to track down online.