Had Your Flu Shots Yet?

[Mtguide]

My grandmother Cora, on my Mother's side, died in the great flu pandemic of 1918-1919, at the age of 24; at the time Cora's mother, aunt and grandmother were living with the family. Her mother and aunt, both in their 50's, were only mildly affected, and the grandmother, in her late 70's,and my mother, who was just 2, didn't get sick at all. My grandfather Harry, 32 at the time, a hale and hearty Irishman, fell ill with that flu and did survive, but only just barely. It did kill Harry's brother and sister.

 

The pandemic came in two great waves, planet-wide, and the first wave affected populations more according to conventional wisdom, in that the young and healthy were more lightly affected. However, many of the elderly,up to 80%, and especially among northern and eastern European populations,were also only mildly affected, due to prior exposure and developed immune resistance to the Russian flu of the 1880s and 60s.

 

The particular characteristic of the second great wave was that most infants and children, and the elderly, were only lightly affected if at all. The overwhelming number of those who were killed, worldwide, were the young, strong and healthy between the ages of 18 and 60. This was because the virus caused a severe and powerful overreaction in the bodies of those with a normally strong and resistant immune system, known as a "cytokine storm", in which the immune response to an unknown agent will send so many immune cells to the site of infection that it can cause serious damage to body tissues. Highly predominant with flu is infection of the lungs, resulting in damage to the alveoli and bronchi, eventual blockage of airways, and death.

 

This great pandemic is still regarded as the most devastating epidemic in known human history. There were at least 20 million confirmed fatalities around the globe, and the total may have been as high as 50 million. Figures from countries such as Africa, China and Russia were, and are still, incomplete. In Spain and Portugal, entire towns and villages were virtually wiped out, all adult inhabitants lost, with only infants, children and the elderly surviving. India alone lost 12 million, again with entire towns and villages utterly decimated, ceasing to exist. In the U.S. , the total was between 500,00 and 675,000.

 

So youth and health are not only no guarantee of resistance or safety, they may be the greatest liability when it comes to the flu. Viruses in general are extremely adaptable and opportunistic; the amazing work of the medical and scientific communities, worldwide, in keeping abreast of the constantly mutating strains of the flu and dozens of other viruses is nothing short of miraculous. I grew up in the 50's, when polio was striking one in every 4 or 5 children every summer, and then was literally stopped dead in its tracks, in a matter of months, by the Salk vaccine and a concerted and nationwide vaccination program. Likewise with smallpox,rubella(measles), pertussis(whooping cough),mumps, diptheria,typhus, tetanus, etc. Believe me, these are horrible diseases, I have seen many of them, except, thank god, smallpox. I know from personal experience that vaccines not only work, but that they are absolutely safe.

 

We are now seeing a resurgence of measles and whooping cough, and even, of all things, the bubonic plague, due to the ignorance, superstition, and just plain damned stubbornness, stupidity, and yes, selfishness of people who refuse vaccines, or think it doesn't matter what they do themselves as individuals. Tuberculosis has mounted a powerful and highly resistant series of mutations, due to defunding of public health education (beginning in the Reagan administration) and resultant ignorance about the necessity of taking the full course of prescribed antibiotics. Just unbelievable.

 

Folks, quit screwing around. If you REALLY care about your own and family's health, the future of your children, and indeed the health of your entire community, GO GET YOUR DAMNED FLU SHOT. NOW. Get your kids vaccinated, the full course, booster shots, everything. There were 5 kids in my family, we all got the full range of vaccinations, and we were all perfectly healthy and continue to be. GET YOUR SHOTS, people. If you think that just because you're young,strong and healthy,there's nothing to worry about, then you haven't seen what these diseases can do and how cruelly and brutally they cripple and kill. Don't wait to find out, and don't bring it down on the rest of us as well.

[Kimmo]

I only trust research I read on .com websites. .org websites have a liberal bias.

 

you and rob both, seemingly.

[rob]

[matt_warfield]

I only trust research I read on .com websites. .org websites have a liberal bias.

 

you and rob both, seemingly.

 

I only trust .gov (kidding)

 

and MtnGuide because he has done some serious research into this. But I'm still interested in how the numbers add up with bubonic plague and malaria.

Edited November 12, 2012 by matt_warfield

[Kimmo]

My grandmother Cora, on my Mother's side, died in the great flu pandemic of 1918-1919, at the age of 24; at the time Cora's mother, aunt and grandmother were living with the family. Her mother and aunt, both in their 50's, were only mildly affected, and the grandmother, in her late 70's,and my mother, who was just 2, didn't get sick at all. My grandfather Harry, 32 at the time, a hale and hearty Irishman, fell ill with that flu and did survive, but only just barely. It did kill Harry's brother and sister.

 

The pandemic came in two great waves, planet-wide, and the first wave affected populations more according to conventional wisdom, in that the young and healthy were more lightly affected. However, many of the elderly,up to 80%, and especially among northern and eastern European populations,were also only mildly affected, due to prior exposure and developed immune resistance to the Russian flu of the 1880s and 60s.

 

The particular characteristic of the second great wave was that most infants and children, and the elderly, were only lightly affected if at all. The overwhelming number of those who were killed, worldwide, were the young, strong and healthy between the ages of 18 and 60. This was because the virus caused a severe and powerful overreaction in the bodies of those with a normally strong and resistant immune system, known as a "cytokine storm", in which the immune response to an unknown agent will send so many immune cells to the site of infection that it can cause serious damage to body tissues. Highly predominant with flu is infection of the lungs, resulting in damage to the alveoli and bronchi, eventual blockage of airways, and death.

 

This great pandemic is still regarded as the most devastating epidemic in known human history. There were at least 20 million confirmed fatalities around the globe, and the total may have been as high as 50 million. Figures from countries such as Africa, China and Russia were, and are still, incomplete. In Spain and Portugal, entire towns and villages were virtually wiped out, all adult inhabitants lost, with only infants, children and the elderly surviving. India alone lost 12 million, again with entire towns and villages utterly decimated, ceasing to exist. In the U.S. , the total was between 500,00 and 675,000.

 

So youth and health are not only no guarantee of resistance or safety, they may be the greatest liability when it comes to the flu. Viruses in general are extremely adaptable and opportunistic; the amazing work of the medical and scientific communities, worldwide, in keeping abreast of the constantly mutating strains of the flu and dozens of other viruses is nothing short of miraculous. I grew up in the 50's, when polio was striking one in every 4 or 5 children every summer, and then was literally stopped dead in its tracks, in a matter of months, by the Salk vaccine and a concerted and nationwide vaccination program. Likewise with smallpox,rubella(measles), pertussis(whooping cough),mumps, diptheria,typhus, tetanus, etc. Believe me, these are horrible diseases, I have seen many of them, except, thank god, smallpox. I know from personal experience that vaccines not only work, but that they are absolutely safe.

 

We are now seeing a resurgence of measles and whooping cough, and even, of all things, the bubonic plague, due to the ignorance, superstition, and just plain damned stubbornness, stupidity, and yes, selfishness of people who refuse vaccines, or think it doesn't matter what they do themselves as individuals. Tuberculosis has mounted a powerful and highly resistant series of mutations, due to defunding of public health education (beginning in the Reagan administration) and resultant ignorance about the necessity of taking the full course of prescribed antibiotics. Just unbelievable.

 

Folks, quit screwing around. If you REALLY care about your own and family's health, the future of your children, and indeed the health of your entire community, GO GET YOUR DAMNED FLU SHOT. NOW. Get your kids vaccinated, the full course, booster shots, everything. There were 5 kids in my family, we all got the full range of vaccinations, and we were all perfectly healthy and continue to be. GET YOUR SHOTS, people. If you think that just because you're young,strong and healthy,there's nothing to worry about, then you haven't seen what these diseases can do and how cruelly and brutally they cripple and kill. Don't wait to find out, and don't bring it down on the rest of us as well.

 

ladies and gentlemen, may i present to you:

 

SCIENCE.

[Choada_Boy]

 

Ignorance is Strength

[jon]

I was wondering how long it would take for an infowars link to appear.

[rob]

My grandmother Cora, on my Mother's side, died in the great flu pandemic of 1918-1919, at the age of 24; at the time Cora's mother, aunt and grandmother were living with the family. Her mother and aunt, both in their 50's, were only mildly affected, and the grandmother, in her late 70's,and my mother, who was just 2, didn't get sick at all. My grandfather Harry, 32 at the time, a hale and hearty Irishman, fell ill with that flu and did survive, but only just barely. It did kill Harry's brother and sister.

 

The pandemic came in two great waves, planet-wide, and the first wave affected populations more according to conventional wisdom, in that the young and healthy were more lightly affected. However, many of the elderly,up to 80%, and especially among northern and eastern European populations,were also only mildly affected, due to prior exposure and developed immune resistance to the Russian flu of the 1880s and 60s.

 

The particular characteristic of the second great wave was that most infants and children, and the elderly, were only lightly affected if at all. The overwhelming number of those who were killed, worldwide, were the young, strong and healthy between the ages of 18 and 60. This was because the virus caused a severe and powerful overreaction in the bodies of those with a normally strong and resistant immune system, known as a "cytokine storm", in which the immune response to an unknown agent will send so many immune cells to the site of infection that it can cause serious damage to body tissues. Highly predominant with flu is infection of the lungs, resulting in damage to the alveoli and bronchi, eventual blockage of airways, and death.

 

This great pandemic is still regarded as the most devastating epidemic in known human history. There were at least 20 million confirmed fatalities around the globe, and the total may have been as high as 50 million. Figures from countries such as Africa, China and Russia were, and are still, incomplete. In Spain and Portugal, entire towns and villages were virtually wiped out, all adult inhabitants lost, with only infants, children and the elderly surviving. India alone lost 12 million, again with entire towns and villages utterly decimated, ceasing to exist. In the U.S. , the total was between 500,00 and 675,000.

 

So youth and health are not only no guarantee of resistance or safety, they may be the greatest liability when it comes to the flu. Viruses in general are extremely adaptable and opportunistic; the amazing work of the medical and scientific communities, worldwide, in keeping abreast of the constantly mutating strains of the flu and dozens of other viruses is nothing short of miraculous. I grew up in the 50's, when polio was striking one in every 4 or 5 children every summer, and then was literally stopped dead in its tracks, in a matter of months, by the Salk vaccine and a concerted and nationwide vaccination program. Likewise with smallpox,rubella(measles), pertussis(whooping cough),mumps, diptheria,typhus, tetanus, etc. Believe me, these are horrible diseases, I have seen many of them, except, thank god, smallpox. I know from personal experience that vaccines not only work, but that they are absolutely safe.

 

We are now seeing a resurgence of measles and whooping cough, and even, of all things, the bubonic plague, due to the ignorance, superstition, and just plain damned stubbornness, stupidity, and yes, selfishness of people who refuse vaccines, or think it doesn't matter what they do themselves as individuals. Tuberculosis has mounted a powerful and highly resistant series of mutations, due to defunding of public health education (beginning in the Reagan administration) and resultant ignorance about the necessity of taking the full course of prescribed antibiotics. Just unbelievable.

 

Folks, quit screwing around. If you REALLY care about your own and family's health, the future of your children, and indeed the health of your entire community, GO GET YOUR DAMNED FLU SHOT. NOW. Get your kids vaccinated, the full course, booster shots, everything. There were 5 kids in my family, we all got the full range of vaccinations, and we were all perfectly healthy and continue to be. GET YOUR SHOTS, people. If you think that just because you're young,strong and healthy,there's nothing to worry about, then you haven't seen what these diseases can do and how cruelly and brutally they cripple and kill. Don't wait to find out, and don't bring it down on the rest of us as well.

 

Smallpox wasn't destroyed by a vaccine, it was destroyed when Americans started using washing machines. Modern medi$$$ine just claimed it was because of the vaccine, which was really just poisoning people.

 

It's all here in this awesome site

 

1901: Dr Rodermund demonstrates that small pox is not contagious

 

1902: Dr Campbell proves that smallpox is caused by the common bedbug Cimex lectularius

 

1920: The famous "Raggedy Ann" doll is created by a grieving father whose daughter died from the small pox vaccine given without his consent

 

1950s: Every American home has access to washing machines and with it small pox vanishes

 

[ivan]

i have my reservations w/ vaccines, therefore only accept them when administered by gay weed-smoking nurses who are left-handed

[Choada_Boy]

My grandmother Cora, on my Mother's side, died in the great flu pandemic of 1918-1919, at the age of 24; at the time Cora's mother, aunt and grandmother were living with the family. Her mother and aunt, both in their 50's, were only mildly affected, and the grandmother, in her late 70's,and my mother, who was just 2, didn't get sick at all. My grandfather Harry, 32 at the time, a hale and hearty Irishman, fell ill with that flu and did survive, but only just barely. It did kill Harry's brother and sister.

 

The pandemic came in two great waves, planet-wide, and the first wave affected populations more according to conventional wisdom, in that the young and healthy were more lightly affected. However, many of the elderly,up to 80%, and especially among northern and eastern European populations,were also only mildly affected, due to prior exposure and developed immune resistance to the Russian flu of the 1880s and 60s.

 

The particular characteristic of the second great wave was that most infants and children, and the elderly, were only lightly affected if at all. The overwhelming number of those who were killed, worldwide, were the young, strong and healthy between the ages of 18 and 60. This was because the virus caused a severe and powerful overreaction in the bodies of those with a normally strong and resistant immune system, known as a "cytokine storm", in which the immune response to an unknown agent will send so many immune cells to the site of infection that it can cause serious damage to body tissues. Highly predominant with flu is infection of the lungs, resulting in damage to the alveoli and bronchi, eventual blockage of airways, and death.

 

This great pandemic is still regarded as the most devastating epidemic in known human history. There were at least 20 million confirmed fatalities around the globe, and the total may have been as high as 50 million. Figures from countries such as Africa, China and Russia were, and are still, incomplete. In Spain and Portugal, entire towns and villages were virtually wiped out, all adult inhabitants lost, with only infants, children and the elderly surviving. India alone lost 12 million, again with entire towns and villages utterly decimated, ceasing to exist. In the U.S. , the total was between 500,00 and 675,000.

 

So youth and health are not only no guarantee of resistance or safety, they may be the greatest liability when it comes to the flu. Viruses in general are extremely adaptable and opportunistic; the amazing work of the medical and scientific communities, worldwide, in keeping abreast of the constantly mutating strains of the flu and dozens of other viruses is nothing short of miraculous. I grew up in the 50's, when polio was striking one in every 4 or 5 children every summer, and then was literally stopped dead in its tracks, in a matter of months, by the Salk vaccine and a concerted and nationwide vaccination program. Likewise with smallpox,rubella(measles), pertussis(whooping cough),mumps, diptheria,typhus, tetanus, etc. Believe me, these are horrible diseases, I have seen many of them, except, thank god, smallpox. I know from personal experience that vaccines not only work, but that they are absolutely safe.

 

We are now seeing a resurgence of measles and whooping cough, and even, of all things, the bubonic plague, due to the ignorance, superstition, and just plain damned stubbornness, stupidity, and yes, selfishness of people who refuse vaccines, or think it doesn't matter what they do themselves as individuals. Tuberculosis has mounted a powerful and highly resistant series of mutations, due to defunding of public health education (beginning in the Reagan administration) and resultant ignorance about the necessity of taking the full course of prescribed antibiotics. Just unbelievable.

 

Folks, quit screwing around. If you REALLY care about your own and family's health, the future of your children, and indeed the health of your entire community, GO GET YOUR DAMNED FLU SHOT. NOW. Get your kids vaccinated, the full course, booster shots, everything. There were 5 kids in my family, we all got the full range of vaccinations, and we were all perfectly healthy and continue to be. GET YOUR SHOTS, people. If you think that just because you're young,strong and healthy,there's nothing to worry about, then you haven't seen what these diseases can do and how cruelly and brutally they cripple and kill. Don't wait to find out, and don't bring it down on the rest of us as well.

 

Smallpox wasn't destroyed by a vaccine, it was destroyed when Americans started using washing machines. Modern medi$$$ine just claimed it was because of the vaccine, which was really just poisoning people.

 

It's all here in this awesome site

 

1901: Dr Rodermund demonstrates that small pox is not contagious

 

1902: Dr Campbell proves that smallpox is caused by the common bedbug Cimex lectularius

 

1920: The famous "Raggedy Ann" doll is created by a grieving father whose daughter died from the small pox vaccine given without his consent

 

1950s: Every American home has access to washing machines and with it small pox vanishes

 

Golly! If bedbugs cause smallpox, where are all the new smallpox cases in light of the recent increase in bedbug infestations?

[JayB]

was free, so yes, why not?

 

They are *not* free.

 

good point. flu vaccines are a multi-billion dollar industry, and pharma isn't into charity work.

 

1. Most infectious diseases that we vaccinate against aren't lethal or even particularly dangerous to healthy adults. If you are a healthy adult with a normal immune system and catch them - you'll likely feel bad for a few days and recover. Protecting yourself from feeling bad for a few days is one reason to vaccinate, but not the only one, and far from the most important one.

 

If you are a normal human you'll interact with lots of people who interact with lots of other people - a certain percentage of whom are very young, very old, or have an immune system that is suppressed because they've recently received an organ transplant and are on immunosuppressants, they have a chronic medical condition which requires that they take medicines which suppress their immune function to some degree or another, they have HIV, etc. The most important reason to vaccinate is to break the chain of transmission that would otherwise lead to vulnerable infants, elderly, or immuno-compromised people getting infected with the flu, etc, and becoming severely ill or dying.

 

 

2. If we are going by a consistent standard, then the motives of everyone engaged in *any* productive activity that they are paid for are suspect since it isn't by definition, charity work. Judges, nurses, park rangers, professors - run right down the roster and you won't find more than a handful of people who would continue to pursue a particular line of work if they weren't being paid, because they couldn't.

 

So - not into charity work...compared to which industry? "The Conference Board surveyed 211 of the largest companies and corporate foundations, and found that they gave $9.78 billion in 2005, up more than 18% from the previous year. Most of that money was spent in the U.S, with only $2 billion going overseas. More than half of all donations were products, rather than cash.

 

But that doesn't necessarily mean companies have become more generous; they're simply making more money. As a percentage of pretax income, companies in the survey actually gave less to American charities in 2005--1% of their U.S. earnings, compared with 1.6% the year before.

In Pictures: The Most Charitable Industries

 

Pharmaceutical companies, however, are far more generous than others. Perhaps because they're fighting an increasingly negative public image, drug firms in the survey reported donating 13% of their U.S. income to American charities.

 

The global numbers give a slightly different picture, but drug firms still come out on top. Pharmaceutical companies donated 1.51% of their worldwide sales to charity; no other sector gave more than 1%, and many gave less than one-tenth of 1%."

 

http://www.forbes.com/2007/01/16/leadership-philanthropy-charity-lead-citizen-cx_hc_0116charitable.html

 

[ivan]

Golly! If bedbugs cause smallpox, where are all the new smallpox cases in light of the recent increase in bedbug infestations?

chemtrails, it turns out, kill the virus directly - emergence of commercial jetliners and end of smallpox a mere coincidence? the truth IS out there.

[Kimmo]

 

you know better, rob. it's irresponsible for you to be publicly airing your fear-mongering, when we know, through extensive SCIENCE, that vaccinations are 100% money back guaranteed to be COMPLETELY SAFE and it's been proven.

 

plus, the government tells us so, and so do the scientists. so please take it down.

[KaskadskyjKozak]

 

you know better, rob. it's irresponsible for you to be publicly airing your fear-mongering, when we know, through extensive SCIENCE, that vaccinations are 100% money back guaranteed to be COMPLETELY SAFE and it's been proven.

 

plus, the government tells us so, and so do the scientists. so please take it down.

 

Besides all that, vaccines are *free*. Why not just take them, when they don't cost anything?

[rob]

 

Golly! If bedbugs cause smallpox, where are all the new smallpox cases in light of the recent increase in bedbug infestations?

 

Obviously, our washing machines eradicated the virus. When the bed bug came back, they were themselves no longer infected. Use your brain, dude.

[glassgowkiss]

It could be related to the findings of this recent study: Mothers who have influenza during pregnancy are twice as likely to have autistic children. link Turns out docs are recommending that pregnant mothers get a flu shot.

 

Kimmo, while you've found Healy who supports a certain hypothesis, the results of studies and the consensus of almost all researchers on the subject concludes that vaccines do not cause autism. This is just the flip side of the occasional climate change denier: the strange notion that fairness means giving equal weight to a single opinion that runs contrary to a thousand others, especially if it confirms your own bias.

There was also a study showing 100% link to obesity and autism. I don't have time to look at this now, but there was a study as well showing omega3 deficiency and autism. I think it will be a complex issue related to diet, physical health of the mother, genes and environment, combined. It's the same as they are looking at autoimmune issues now as a complex problem compounding multiple aspects, no silver bullet solution. Hence one less reason to dish out pretty much ineffective and potentially harmful injections for flu.

[JayB]

was free, so yes, why not?

 

They are *not* free.

 

good point. flu vaccines are a multi-billion dollar industry, and pharma isn't into charity work.

 

http://briandeer.com/mmr-lancet.htm

 

Worth reading through all of the material there in full. Wakefield wasn't engaged in a charitable enterprise either.

 

"“Science is at once the most questioning and . . . sceptical of activities and also the most trusting,” said Arnold Relman, former editor of the New England Journal of Medicine, in 1989. “It is intensely sceptical about the possibility of error, but totally trusting about the possibility of fraud.”

 

Never has this been truer than of the 1998 Lancet paper that implied a link between the measles, mumps, and rubella (MMR) vaccine and a “new syndrome” of autism and bowel disease.

 

Authored by Andrew Wakefield and 12 others, the paper’s scientific limitations were clear when it appeared in 1998. As the ensuing vaccine scare took off, critics quickly pointed out that the paper was a small case series with no controls, linked three common conditions, and relied on parental recall and beliefs. Over the following decade, epidemiological studies consistently found no evidence of a link between the MMR vaccine and autism. By the time the paper was finally retracted 12 years later, after forensic dissection at the General Medical Council’s (GMC) longest ever fitness to practise hearing, few people could deny that it was fatally flawed both scientifically and ethically. But it has taken the diligent scepticism of one man, standing outside medicine and science, to show that the paper was in fact an elaborate fraud.

 

In a series of articles starting this week, and seven years after first looking into the MMR scare, journalist Brian Deer now shows the extent of Wakefield’s fraud and how it was perpetrated. Drawing on interviews, documents, and data made public at the GMC hearings, Deer shows how Wakefield altered numerous facts about the patients’ medical histories in order to support his claim to have identified a new syndrome; how his institution, the Royal Free Hospital and Medical School in London, supported him as he sought to exploit the ensuing MMR scare for financial gain; and how key players failed to investigate thoroughly in the public interest when Deer first raised his concerns."

[olyclimber]

I didn't read this, but who do you think would win:

 

Carl Sagan vs. Neil deGrasse Tyson mud wrestling?

[olyclimber]

assuming, of course, that they are both in the prime of their lives and not dead yet.

 

also, did you know Sagan died in Seattle? Do you know where YOU were when Sagan died???

[Pete_H]

Stephen Hawkin could build a robot that could eat Neil Degrasse Tyson and Sagan.

[olyclimber]

In Sagan We Trust

 

[olyclimber]

[matt_warfield]

I have a long and profound statement to make:

 

I do what I want and I'll take what I get.

Edited November 13, 2012 by matt_warfield

[olyclimber]

well bend over the super collider has something for you

 

[Kimmo]

Worth reading through all of the material there in full. Wakefield wasn't engaged in a charitable enterprise either.

 

the situation is a bit bigger than wakefield and his role.

 

it's bigger than merck falsifying data on a vaccine administered to millions.

 

link

 

 

it's even bigger than gerberding, former cdc director, leaving her post and going directly to work for merck as head of their vaccine department!

 

i don't think we even need to get into the whole pfizer atrocity in africa, do we? (and people wonder why dem forners are so ignorant and can't just take their (our) meds!).

 

to me, the above are distractions. ok maybe they show that both pharma and some anti-vax researchers will falsify data (surprise surprise), but the bigger problem is that vaccines haven't been studied in ways they could, and there are known problems with them already. i think until this happens, we will continue to have public trust issues, with the accompanying problems undervaccination can lead to (as mentioned in your earlier post).

 

 

somewhat interesting read for the science types (scroll down to View from the other side and "scientific proofs":

 

link