last nights debate

[ivan]

Access to education one thing gubmint can help with - I noted that Romney wants us to have the best institutions (we already do), but fails to mention access to same - the real issue.

How the fuck do you figure we have the best institutions? People have to get off the treadmill of hype and bullshit and see what is happening in other parts of the world. Why is it that Japanese kick our asses in auto production and electronics? Constant hearing about how this is the greatest is like hearing addict saying that there is no addiction problem. What used to be great about this country is that if they were problems, they would get acknowledged, addressed and fixed. Saying something is not good doesn't make you un-patriotic, it makes you wise. One of the reasons this recession is lagging as it is, it's because of lack of skills. And this is because people choose to major in political science or sociology, and then they end up working as a barista with 100K in debt from student loans and fuck all worth of a degree.

are you ever NOT angry? maybe you're just paying more attention...

 

i'm no fan of sunshine constantly being shown up our national colon, and certainly it's hard to measure "great colleges," but the fact that very large #'s of folks come to this country specifically for our schools would suggest they're pretty damn good, no?

 

also, the polisci-barrista doesn't mean his polisci education was crap, just that there was no work for him in the field, no? and, as inheritors of the western dream of the enlightenment, i'd hope you can agree that the value of an education shouldn't be entirely tied to the economic prospects it opens up - knowledge is, of itself, a virtue, right jefferson?

Edited October 5, 2012 by ivan

[tvashtarkatena]

To GGK, every moment is an AMERICA, FUCK YEAH moment.

 

We have the best colleges, and more of them, than any other country by any measure. They cost too much now to be accessible, however.

 

Japan's cool, but the 80s and the age of Deming was a long time ago. Their economy has been in the shitter for many years, yes, even compared to ours. Japan has a budding class of new entrepreneurs/inventors, but that really hasn't been their cultural style. Good cars, awesome manga.

 

When you take a real look around, America's not a bad gig. Decent real estate, even though we don't have a World Class Destination here in WA. Always lots to argue about. Great cultural scene. Sure, we've got some unique problems which have been discussed at length here, but in the end I remain ever the optimist about the joint.

[jon]

How the fuck do you figure we have the best institutions? People have to get off the treadmill of hype and bullshit and see what is happening in other parts of the world. Why is it that Japanese kick our asses in auto production and electronics? Constant hearing about how this is the greatest is like hearing addict saying that there is no addiction problem. What used to be great about this country is that if they were problems, they would get acknowledged, addressed and fixed. Saying something is not good doesn't make you un-patriotic, it makes you wise. One of the reasons this recession is lagging as it is, it's because of lack of skills. And this is because people choose to major in political science or sociology, and then they end up working as a barista with 100K in debt from student loans and fuck all worth of a degree.

 

You are almost on point. There are two problems. 1) Education is getting too expensive for the returns, and 2) Institutions are willing to give near worthless educations, both in degrees and substance. We graduate high school students who are either already pretty capable and might benefit from two years of intensive professional study or are completely incapable and in need of serious vocational training that begins in high school.

 

Ivan, I understand your point, but our system is doing a complete disservice to young people. A year ago there was an article in the NYT about education debts talking about a girl who went to NYU with a degree in Womens Studies and is in 200k in debt and making $15/hour as a photography assistance. Now, I'm not saying that there shouldn't be womens studies or any similar types of degree, but don't you think there should be a come to jesus talk when someone decides to do something like this "these are your professional options which are very limited with this degree and you need to be aware of this before embarking on this". Instead it's "fuck yeah we got another one to fund our department and research."

 

Mitt's answer to education expenses is for kids to go into the military if they can't afford it. How pragmatic.

 

[G-spotter]

If you put some worms and guts on your set then you got

de bait on TV

 

[ivan]

[ our system is doing a complete disservice to young people. A year ago there was an article in the NYT about education debts talking about a girl who went to NYU with a degree in Womens Studies and is in 200k in debt and making $15/hour as a photography assistance. Now, I'm not saying that there shouldn't be womens studies or any similar types of degree, but don't you think there should be a come to jesus talk when someone decides to do something like this "these are your professional options which are very limited with this degree and you need to be aware of this before embarking on this". Instead it's "fuck yeah we got another one to fund our department and research."

 

it's a disservice to teach someone about a topic they find interesting? you can't take your woman's study ba and go onto law? start your own business?

 

my education school was actually quite frank at the outset: dude, you ain't gonna make shit if you pursue this career!

 

if anything, the problem may be that kids feel serious pressure to go to college when if fact they're pretty aimless and disinterested, and w/ the current expense of school, paying a much bigger price for their apathy then previous generations.

 

 

[denalidave]

[KaskadskyjKozak]

it's a disservice to teach someone about a topic they find interesting? you can't take your woman's study ba and go onto law? start your own business?

 

Some folks take these majors because they are relatively "easy". "Man I was premed but Chem 101 was soooo hard!". There's a whole bunch of different situations going on here, and Jon is on to something. What I find sad is we have so many great engineering schools and too few students pursuing it. So we end up importing tons of foreign educated folks, not because of our schools, but because of our students, and the lack of willpower to work on hard subjects. OTOH, we have a lot of schools that allow engineers and folks in hard science to avoid writing, literature, foreign languages, and other "soft" classes, when these unidimensional dufuses need exactly that balance (and keeping engineers in these classes could keep these liberal arts departments alive).

[glassgowkiss]

We might have the best schools or colleges, but the educational systems seriously lags. And by educational system I mean students, teachers, school administrations and most importantly parents. I mean if it was my kid going for political science (this term is so oxymoron, almost as good as Polish Intelligence Service), I would at least say :"Are you out of your friggin mind, and I ain't paying for it!"

I really love, when people go for international business degree, but don't learn a single language.

We have very good schools, but shitty system.

[olyclimber]

what the fuck bob....PolySci is very lucrative! Something like 44 percent of Congress are millionaires.

[Crux]

"If that debate was a fight they would've stopped it!" @SenJohnMcCain

 

[glassgowkiss]

what the fuck bob....PolySci is very lucrative! Something like 44 percent of Congress are millionaires.

yeah, but mostly they have a law degree...... just saying.

[tvashtarkatena]

what the fuck bob....PolySci is very lucrative! Something like 44 percent of Congress are millionaires.

yeah, but mostly they have a law degree...... just saying.

 

Less than half of both houses of Congress have law degrees.

 

You gotta stop getting your world view from the back of a matchbook, dood. For a guy who rails against the Republifuk's anti-Age-of-Reason agenda, you're not all that data driven yourself.

[Crux]

 

What? You sayin i'm not exactly a data-driven mutha fukka, mutha fukka?!

 

 

 

[olyclimber]

[video:youtube]TI_9RIZFi04

[Crux]

[olyclimber]

http://video.foxnews.com/v/1871307727001/

[tvashtarkatena]

New rug needed.

 

 

[glassgowkiss]

what the fuck bob....PolySci is very lucrative! Something like 44 percent of Congress are millionaires.

yeah, but mostly they have a law degree...... just saying.

 

Less than half of both houses of Congress have law degrees.

 

You gotta stop getting your world view from the back of a matchbook, dood. For a guy who rails against the Republifuk's anti-Age-of-Reason agenda, you're not all that data driven yourself.

Fuck off dumbshit. This is the breakdown:

168 members of both chambers have law degree

83 has MBA

27 has no college degree

5 has Associate Degree

17 have medical degree MD, DO

1LPN

So by far the biggest chunk belongs to the lawyers, which make 44% to be exact. So on contrary to the bullshit you spewed, I am wright and you are wrong.

None of them list Political Science as a degree.

 

 

[olyclimber]

is this plane English you're using?

[The_Rooster]

I am wright and you are wrong.

 

 

ORVILLE?!?!!???? IS THAT YOU???

 

I CAN FLY TOOOOOO!!!!!!

 

COCK A DOODLE DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

[murraysovereign]

what the fuck bob....PolySci is very lucrative! Something like 44 percent of Congress are millionaires.

yeah, but mostly they have a law degree...... just saying.

 

Less than half of both houses of Congress have law degrees.

 

You gotta stop getting your world view from the back of a matchbook, dood. For a guy who rails against the Republifuk's anti-Age-of-Reason agenda, you're not all that data driven yourself.

Fuck off dumbshit. This is the breakdown:

168 members of both chambers have law degree

83 has MBA

27 has no college degree

5 has Associate Degree

17 have medical degree MD, DO

1LPN

So by far the biggest chunk belongs to the lawyers, which make 44% to be exact. So on contrary to the bullshit you spewed, I am wright and you are wrong.

None of them list Political Science as a degree.

 

 

Let's see... both houses combined total 535 members.

According to your own numbers, "168 members of both chambers have law degree".

According to my math, 168 is a little over 31% of 535. Now, you guys may do math differently than we do - we do the metric thing, whereas you stubbornly cling to that archaic "Imperial" system that even the Empire has largely abandoned - but up here 31% is generally agreed to be considerably less than half. Am I mis-reading something here?

[Crux]

You gotta problem with the Polish percentage system mutha fukka? Well do ya?

 

 

 

[AlpineK]

what the fuck bob....PolySci is very lucrative! Something like 44 percent of Congress are millionaires.

yeah, but mostly they have a law degree...... just saying.

 

Less than half of both houses of Congress have law degrees.

 

You gotta stop getting your world view from the back of a matchbook, dood. For a guy who rails against the Republifuk's anti-Age-of-Reason agenda, you're not all that data driven yourself.

Fuck off dumbshit. This is the breakdown:

168 members of both chambers have law degree

83 has MBA

27 has no college degree

5 has Associate Degree

17 have medical degree MD, DO

1LPN

So by far the biggest chunk belongs to the lawyers, which make 44% to be exact. So on contrary to the bullshit you spewed, I am wright and you are wrong.

None of them list Political Science as a degree.

 

 

If I believe all these numbers

 

List of Percentages

 

• Lawyers = 31.401869158879%
• MBA = 15.514018691589%
• High School or less = 5.046728971963%
• = 0.0934579439252%
• Doctors = 3.177570093458%
• LPN = 0.186915887851%
  

 

Of course I used an online calculator that also told me

 

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[rob]

All of America's problems would go away if we only "reinstated the draft," right GGK?

 

[ivan]

wasn't it a classic george w debate in which he railed against "new math?"