This is interesting...

[RuMR]

So...where do you put yourself? I can think of a couple of cc.comers that qualify!

[ivan]

i can aid 5.11 pretty reliably i can also out-drink most 5.11 climbers too, which is perhaps more important since they have hotter girlfriends more often than not

[matt_warfield]

 

What I know for sure is that ivan kicks everyone's ass at humor regardless of the type or difficulty of climbing.

Edited August 21, 2012 by matt_warfield

[Raindawg]

The fact is, if the "rules" allow for one to hang off a line of closely fixed pro and rehearse indefinitely (i.e., the status quo in much of "free climbing" today), YOU, TOO, can be a 5.11/.12/.13 whatever bad dog if you've got the zeal, time and energy to siege a route into submission! Climbing it clean (leaving little or no trace....just like them backpackers figgered out 50 years ago) from the bottom up without falling, though, is another thing altogether.

 

Booooooo!

[rob]

It must be exhausting to be you.

[el jefe]

So...where do you put yourself? I can think of a couple of cc.comers that qualify!

 

nice link to the fuddyduddy forum on the taco, but are you thinking of cc.comers that qualify as all around yosemite 5.11 crack climbing experts or as tiresome windbags who whine ceaselessly about how things ain't so good as they were back in the day of the stonedmasters? seems like there are more than "a couple" on this site who qualify for the latter.

[boadman]

Does Index count? If so, I'm not sure if I know anyone who hasn't fallen 5.11 reasonably regularly there, including people that onsight 5.13.

[Alex]

Saying that you have to have done something "all around" eg can lead 5.11 trad offwidth before you can properly proclaim yourself a 5.11 trad leader is contrived. Climbing is contrived to begin with, why make it so much more complicated? Next I'll have to present some paperwork to get my Bobcat badge.

[denalidave]

So...where do you put yourself? I can think of a couple of cc.comers that qualify!

 

nice link to the fuddyduddy forum on the taco, but are you thinking of cc.comers that qualify as all around yosemite 5.11 crack climbing experts or as tiresome windbags who whine ceaselessly about how things ain't so good as they were back in the day of the stonedmasters? seems like there are more than "a couple" on this site who qualify for the latter.

So, if your one of them, who is the "other" one that qualifies? Ivan?

 

I'm a solid 5.6 trad climber, does that mean I'm half a 5.11 trad-master? A bit more than half, to be precise.

 

[video:youtube]

[RuMR]

So...where do you put yourself? I can think of a couple of cc.comers that qualify!

 

nice link to the fuddyduddy forum on the taco, but are you thinking of cc.comers that qualify as all around yosemite 5.11 crack climbing experts or as tiresome windbags who whine ceaselessly about how things ain't so good as they were back in the day of the stonedmasters? seems like there are more than "a couple" on this site who qualify for the latter.

So, if your one of them, who is the "other" one that qualifies? Ivan?

 

I'm a solid 5.6 trad climber, does that mean I'm half a 5.11 trad-master? A bit more than half, to be precise.

 

[video:youtube]

 

I think the point of the post by John Long was that calling oneself a 5.11 climber and being able to climb any 5.11 onsight regardless of style is a fairly select club. I am most certainly not in this club...

 

I'd say Ben is, souldreaper is, mike is, etc...there are some awesome climbers on this site...that was my point...Pysched on the NW climbers!

Edited August 21, 2012 by RuMR

[JosephH]

Next I'll have to present some paperwork to get my Bobcat badge.

Wait, you mean you haven't already done that at your local gym? How is it they let you lead the Bobcat routes without one?

[denalidave]

I can think of no less than 10 solid "5.11 climbers" that are regulars here. Most of them probably don't tout it though. For every one of those, you have 20 more claiming "I can climb 5.11" but really can't. Seems about consistent with meeting partners who are from the gym or sport crags. Talk is cheap, especially on the interwebs.

 

Better to sandbag your own abilities, rather than eat humble pie when that 5.9 kicks your 5.11 not-so-tradmaster-ass. (IMHO)

[RuMR]

I can think of no less than 10 solid "5.11 climbers" that are regulars here. Most of them probably don't tout it though. For every one of those, you have 20 more claiming "I can climb 5.11" but really can't. Seems about consistent with meeting partners who are from the gym or sport crags. Talk is cheap, especially on the interwebs.

 

Better to sandbag your own abilities, rather than eat humble pie when that 5.9 kicks your 5.11 not-so-tradmaster-ass. (IMHO)

 

Not sure but i think we are saying the same thing...but to reiterate what i just said:

 

1. there are some awesome local nw climbers

and

2. being an "all around" 5.11 climber is impressive.

 

And if your "Talk is cheap" comment was directed at me, well, fuck you too...

 

Edited August 22, 2012 by RuMR

[RuMR]

The fact is, if the "rules" allow for one to hang off a line of closely fixed pro and rehearse indefinitely (i.e., the status quo in much of "free climbing" today), YOU, TOO, can be a 5.11/.12/.13 whatever bad dog if you've got the zeal, time and energy to siege a route into submission! Climbing it clean (leaving little or no trace....just like them backpackers figgered out 50 years ago) from the bottom up without falling, though, is another thing altogether.

 

Booooooo!

oh lookie, grumpy stopped by to lay a dookie... yawn

[Pete_H]

 

I'd say Ben is, souldreaper is, mike is, etc...there are some awesome climbers on this site...that was my point...Pysched on the NW climbers!

 

Don't forget the 11worth contingent as long as we're droppin names - Blake, Sol, Jens, etc.

[Buckaroo]

I would say anyone that climbs sustained 5.11 trad at Index, be it crack, slab, or face, onsite or redpoint, is a 5.11 climber. The climber that climbs any style 5.11 onsite is a solid 5.11 climber.

[RuMR]

 

I'd say Ben is, souldreaper is, mike is, etc...there are some awesome climbers on this site...that was my point...Pysched on the NW climbers!

 

Don't forget the 11worth contingent as long as we're droppin names - Blake, Sol, Jens, etc.

Yah...they would definitely be in there!

[RuMR]

I would say anyone that climbs sustained 5.11 trad at Index, be it crack, slab, or face, onsite or redpoint, is a 5.11 climber. The climber that climbs any style 5.11 onsite is a solid 5.11 climber.

that's a pretty fair statement...might not apply to steep rifle-esque areas though...

[denalidave]

I can think of no less than 10 solid "5.11 climbers" that are regulars here. Most of them probably don't tout it though. For every one of those, you have 20 more claiming "I can climb 5.11" but really can't. Seems about consistent with meeting partners who are from the gym or sport crags. Talk is cheap, especially on the interwebs.

 

Better to sandbag your own abilities, rather than eat humble pie when that 5.9 kicks your 5.11 not-so-tradmaster-ass. (IMHO)

 

Not sure but i think we are saying the same thing...but to reiterate what i just said:

 

1. there are some awesome local nw climbers

and

2. being an "all around" 5.11 climber is impressive.

 

And if your "Talk is cheap" comment was directed at me, well, fuck you too...

Um, no, talk is cheap are those "I'm a 5.11 trade climber" types. Yes, if you can lead 5.11 in any style climbing, yer probably among rare company at most crags & peaks. Perhaps the valley excluded?

[Rad]

You get good at what you do. If you pull plastic bouldering routes you get good at plastic bouldering routes. If you climb slabs all the time you get good at that. If you climb crimpy Little Si enduro routes you get good at those. Unfortunately, skills in one area usually don't confer much benefit in the other areas. The only way to become a solid all-around climber is to climb all of the styles, with particular emphasis on your weaknesses.

 

Most people don't have/make time to log that many hours on distant crags to get good at everything. Wet weather doesn't help the equation. I wish there was a gym where I could practice slab climbing. Ditto jamming of different sizes. Yes, there are some gyms that have fake cracks but they're pretty far from the real thing.

 

So here's a hypothesis: it's not possible to become a 5.11 all-rounder if you live on the wet side of our mountains and have a family and job because you simply can't log enough hours practicing all the necessary skills. Maintaining a high level of proficiency is easier than gaining it in the first place, which is why I say "become" rather than "be" above. Feel free to prove me wrong.

 

ps. Largo is too Yosemite-centric. We need a list of NW benchmark routes.

[mattp]

I've known some local climbers to become "all around" 5.11 climbers, Rad, but it is certainly true that we tend to specialize in what we like, or what our friends like, or what is easiest to get to, or whatever.

 

I also agree that families and jobs tend to hold promising climbers back from their "all around" 5.11 potential, but I bet that, at the end of the day, most of them end up thinking that the trade off was worth it.

 

I like the premise here: that climbing 5.11 sport or crack or whatever is not the same as climbing 5.11 everything. But I think a "true" 5.11 climber is one who is true (and I think this means honest) about what they actually climb -- and that includes that they climb 5.11. I disrespect gym climbing, so maybe not that - but the logical extension of my argument here is that the honest gym climber who climbs 5.11 is a 5.11 climber even though they might not be able to climb 5.9 at Index.

[matt_warfield]

Let us not forget about our Canadian neighbors like Sandford, Croft (to begin with), Stanhope, Trotter, Beckham, and many others who cut their teeth in Squamish which is just a somewhat smaller version of Yosemite but have done a whole lot of 5.11 onsight on slabs, cracks of all sizes, sport, and etc.

 

A key example is the first ascent of Pipeline, 5.10d sandbag offwidth that was done free solo. Pussies need not apply. Even Raindawg would approve.

 

And I agree with Rumr's list but must correct that it is Mikey and not Mike. I might add Burdo to the list.

 

 

Edited August 22, 2012 by matt_warfield

[max]

There's a big difference between .11 and .11 scary death route. Shit, I can't even climb 5.8 if it's a death route 'cause that's not what climbing's about to me. So to set the bar for all around 5.11 climber using scary/hard to protect climbs seems a little odd.

[Off_White]

I guess the premise is more or less the way I've always seen things, but my early climbing years were spent in the same places as Largo, so its not surprising I'd share that viewpoint.

 

I get up a few 5.11's, but in no way would I describe myself as a 5.11 climber. There's a lot of 5.10 crack that will rattle my cage pretty well too, though I'm pretty confident on the face and slab routes.

 

I figure by the above criteria, I'm a 5.9 climber, and that's about what I'd feel comfortable claiming. I'm a pretty mediocre climbing talent, but at least I've managed to remain mediocre for a very long time.

 

Rad might have a point though, that level is about where I got back in the days of no wife or family, or serious job for that matter. It would take more time than I have to spend on climbing to advance any further, but aside from a little longing for certain routes, I'm pretty happy right where I am.

[Off_White]

A key example is the first ascent of Pipeline, 5.10d sandbag offwidth that was done free solo. Pussies need not apply.

 

Pipeline was not done by one of the Canadians, but rather old San Diego boy Greg Cameron.