I AM THE 17% (AND SO CAN YOU!!!)

[tvashtarkatena]

Actually, a lot of it had to do with switching over from the idea of 'losing' something to 'gaining' something. Before I quit it was all about giving something up. Afterwards I quickly realized how much more time, energy, and money I had, and how much better I felt in general. Even a beer kind of kills my evening's motivation. No hangovers, no wasted mornings, no worries about driving, health effects, "should I have another beer or not"? blah blah. Alcohol's considered a stress reducer. I think it causes way more stress than it relieves. It's fucking hard on the body, too, even in small amounts. An old coot like me needs all the help his sorry ass can get.

 

And that's all yer gonna get.

 

Fire away. You've got your target.

Edited January 11, 2012 by tvashtarkatena

[billcoe]

Nothing to fire away at. Self improvement is a good thing. Some of the rest of us should be eyeballing the same.

[Pete_H]

Admit it, though. You'd drink a cold beer stashed in the creek after a long day of climbing in the sun.

[G-spotter]

shit I'd even drink a warm beer if it was another climbing party's

[Pete_H]

That's why you have to hide your beer real well when you go to Canadaland.

[tvashtarkatena]

Admit it, though. You'd drink a cold beer stashed in the creek after a long day of climbing in the sun.

 

No, but back in the day I did drink a Guinness that had been stashed in back of the Hoh 9 mile shelter long enough to be half buried in moss.

[ivan]

been reading a collection of jack london's work lately - holy shit, there's an old boy who knew somethign about drinking - between him and jack keroac, they must have had a liver the size of texas

 

came across this quote the other night:

"Men do not knowingly drink for the effect alcohol produces on the body. What they drink for is the brain-effect; and if it must come through the body, so much the worse for the body."

Edited January 11, 2012 by ivan

[JayB]

-Agree that the association between moderate alcohol consumption is likely to be debunked over time, since it's basically a marker for impulse control, eduction, income, etc. Swap the delivery vehicle from wine, micros, and scotch to 8-Ball, Mad-Dog 20/20, or Pruno and the correlation between any level of alchol consumption and health turns negative mighty fast.

 

-For me it's all part of a balance between indulging in one of the quotidian pleasures that makes life more enjoyable and interesting despite the ill health effects, and the knowledge that I could easily find myself amongst the folks who die long before reaching the three-score and ten milestone, at which point abstaining from moderate alcohol consumption to preserve my health would seem mighty silly.

 

-IMO anyone who engages in alpine climbing or other similarly risky pursuits shouldn't bother worrying about what downing a couple of beers a day is likely to do to their longevity. If you're into base jumping you can pretty much indulge in any vice known to man, or invent some new ones, in any quantity and not worry about it affecting your longevity one iota.

 

 

[tvashtarkatena]

Not sure who you're addressing, but for me, abstaining from The Sauce has nothing to do with longevity, which is got to be the most oversold and underdelivering product in history. No one quits because they want to 'live till 80' or whatever. They quit because they want improved well being and quality of life now. Both are much improved after quitting for me.

 

Moderate booze consumption does nothing for me but slow me down, dull my wits and put a drag on the wallet. I realize that it's a social norm, and I also realize that I don't give a shit.

 

 

Regarding total abstention from all intoxicants, well...we'll save that discussion for Nov 3, 2012.

Edited January 11, 2012 by tvashtarkatena

[JayB]

- Really not addressing you other than agreeing with your skepticism about the health benefits of moderate alcohol consumption.

 

-Different strokes for different folks. I'm all for the total legalization of all drugs and couldn't care less what people outside of my family and friends do to their own bodies so long as they don't hurt anyone else. While I certainly don't consider you an enemy, you're neither family nor a friend so what you chose to partake in or not is no business of mine.

[Jim]

Oh, Nov 3 will be interesting. Nov 4 more so when the Fed squashes it iike a cockroach as they did when Oakland was set to legalize. That was flushed pretty quick. What is going to be different here? All for it, but don't see it happening.

[ivan]

but ron paul's gonna win!!!

 

reckon change is best when it's a slow process - washington, should i502 get passed, hopefully will just be the first in a long line of states asserting their authority to make decisions on drugs, and ultimately to cause the feds to stay out of issues they're not empowered to deal w/ by article 1?

[tvashtarkatena]

2 years later, an entire state, the initiative process (popular vote, more political punch) and a well written law...unlike Oakland's.

 

17 states have medical marijuana and 14 (I believe...not gonna look it up) have decriminalized already...all in violation of federal law.

 

If the Righty Tighties win the senate (?) and/or presidency (not likely), it could be a train wreck. If not...I think we'll be fine.

 

Who knows? The fed might even be relieved to have some political heat taken off.

 

I talked to 5 legislative district chairs tonight. All feel endorsement is likely. That job's gotten a lot easier now that we've got the signatures.

 

Admittedly, I choose to be an optimist. I think we have the power to make our own future, and this 40 year long clusterfuck has got to stop.

 

Edited January 11, 2012 by tvashtarkatena

[j_b]

for me, abstaining from The Sauce has nothing to do with longevity

 

A good thing too since studies show that moderate drinkers have greater longevity than abstainers.

[tvashtarkatena]

- Really not addressing you other than agreeing with your skepticism about the health benefits of moderate alcohol consumption.

 

-Different strokes for different folks. I'm all for the total legalization of all drugs and couldn't care less what people outside of my family and friends do to their own bodies so long as they don't hurt anyone else. While I certainly don't consider you an enemy, you're neither family nor a friend so what you chose to partake in or not is no business of mine.

 

Probably just as well, cuz I like to smoke the dried placentas of newborn kittens.

[tvashtarkatena]

for me, abstaining from The Sauce has nothing to do with longevity

 

A good thing too since studies show that moderate drinkers have greater longevity than abstainers.

 

Have you SEEN HOW MY PEOPLE AGE?

 

Its better this way.

[j_b]

http://www2.potsdam.edu/hansondj/AlcoholAndHealth.html

[j_b]

-Agree that the association between moderate alcohol consumption is likely to be debunked over time, since it's basically a marker for impulse control, eduction, income, etc.

 

"A British analysis of 12,000 male physicians found that moderate drinkers had the lowest risk of death from all causes during the 13 year study."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2541157/

[Bronco]

Actually, a lot of it had to do with switching over from the idea of 'losing' something to 'gaining' something. Before I quit it was all about giving something up. Afterwards I quickly realized how much more time, energy, and money I had, and how much better I felt in general. Even a beer kind of kills my evening's motivation. No hangovers, no wasted mornings, no worries about driving, health effects, "should I have another beer or not"? blah blah. Alcohol's considered a stress reducer. I think it causes way more stress than it relieves. It's fucking hard on the body, too, even in small amounts. An old coot like me needs all the help his sorry ass can get.

 

And that's all yer gonna get.

 

Fire away. You've got your target.

 

Not from me. It is something I believe we've all wrestled with and I was just kind of curious about "le crap".

 

I don't doubt the info Mr. Frieh posted but it seems a little subjective for my pea brain to relate to. Here's some fun facts:

 

Say a 175lb guy drinks one half bottle (two six oz glasses) of red wine each night which is moderate by most standards. That's about 250 calories which takes approximately 25 minutes of running at 5mph for that guy to burn off. Seems counterproductive for most athletes.

 

Say that guy spends $10/bottle for the wine. That's $1,825.00 per year or $152/month. If that guy's spouse consumes the same amount, it's $3,650/year. What else could one do with that money? A week in Maui right now sounds pretty nice.

 

One doesn’t have to be a heavy drinker for it to negatively impact the quality of life. Yet, most of us (myself included) chug away regardless of the outcome. Kind of strange. Like having 1000 channels of stuff on TV with nothing compelling to watch but continuing to channel surf. I'm as guilty as anyone.

 

That's the "crap" that ruminates around my middle-aged head (and gut). Am I going to do anything about it besides anonymously complaining on the internet? With my 40th birthday around the corner, I just might.

 

[Jim]

2 years later, an entire state, the initiative process (popular vote, more political punch) and a well written law...unlike Oakland's.

 

17 states have medical marijuana and 14 (I believe...not gonna look it up) have decriminalized already...all in violation of federal law.

 

If the Righty Tighties win the senate (?) and/or presidency (not likely), it could be a train wreck. If not...I think we'll be fine.

 

Who knows? The fed might even be relieved to have some political heat taken off.

 

I talked to 5 legislative district chairs tonight. All feel endorsement is likely. That job's gotten a lot easier now that we've got the signatures.

 

Admittedly, I choose to be an optimist. I think we have the power to make our own future, and this 40 year long clusterfuck has got to stop.

 

De-criminalize is one thing - mild toleration - legalizing is another. My guess is that the Obama Justice Department will step on the air hose of the state just like they did in Oakland. Might have been wiser to take it in increments and take the CA state model, which is a very liberal use of medical cards for hangnails and such. Doesn't everyone in CA have one now? Hate to see all the money and effort going into the current effort for a noble flamming auger into the ground.

[tvashtarkatena]

We're trying to end the drug war, lower our shameful incarceration rate, and end all the civil rights violations and racial discrimination and just plain human misery that goes with it.

 

You don't do that with med mj. You do that by ending prohibition. It's time to stop fucking around, here.

 

It's a bold, expensive step we've been systematically working towards for 11 years now, and now is the time - polling indicates it, and presidential elections only come around so often.

 

We considered this very carefully, set up the matching funding, seeded funded it, and put the best folks in the state on it. We got our funding BAM! We got out signatures BAM! we're getting our endorsements BAM! We're raising money for the ballot initiative BAM... and we're working with the legislature bam?

 

The voters of WA will go for it.

Edited January 11, 2012 by tvashtarkatena

[tvashtarkatena]

Actually, a lot of it had to do with switching over from the idea of 'losing' something to 'gaining' something. Before I quit it was all about giving something up. Afterwards I quickly realized how much more time, energy, and money I had, and how much better I felt in general. Even a beer kind of kills my evening's motivation. No hangovers, no wasted mornings, no worries about driving, health effects, "should I have another beer or not"? blah blah. Alcohol's considered a stress reducer. I think it causes way more stress than it relieves. It's fucking hard on the body, too, even in small amounts. An old coot like me needs all the help his sorry ass can get.

 

And that's all yer gonna get.

 

Fire away. You've got your target.

 

Not from me. It is something I believe we've all wrestled with and I was just kind of curious about "le crap".

 

I don't doubt the info Mr. Frieh posted but it seems a little subjective for my pea brain to relate to. Here's some fun facts:

 

Say a 175lb guy drinks one half bottle (two six oz glasses) of red wine each night which is moderate by most standards. That's about 250 calories which takes approximately 25 minutes of running at 5mph for that guy to burn off. Seems counterproductive for most athletes.

 

Say that guy spends $10/bottle for the wine. That's $1,825.00 per year or $152/month. If that guy's spouse consumes the same amount, it's $3,650/year. What else could one do with that money? A week in Maui right now sounds pretty nice.

 

One doesn’t have to be a heavy drinker for it to negatively impact the quality of life. Yet, most of us (myself included) chug away regardless of the outcome. Kind of strange. Like having 1000 channels of stuff on TV with nothing compelling to watch but continuing to channel surf. I'm as guilty as anyone.

 

That's the "crap" that ruminates around my middle-aged head (and gut). Am I going to do anything about it besides anonymously complaining on the internet? With my 40th birthday around the corner, I just might.

 

Bronc

 

No aspersions there, but, you know, this isn't exactly the best forum for sharing personal matters. Even admitting you've quit drinking puts you out there for ridicule...not that I give a shit, of course. Fuck it, it's the Thing Not Talked About. It should be. Nicotine ends more lives, but booze destroys and erodes the quality of more lives than any other drug.

 

I can only give you my take. Quitting was easy for me. Badabing, done. Never took another drink.

 

'Cutting back' just seemed to lead to more drinking. In my view, it doesn't really work, since booze quiets your inhibitions. If you're concerned about it at all, the weight gain, the vegetative evenings, the slightly shittier mornings, THE MONEY (holy shit that stuff costs)...you might try setting a date and leaving it behind.

 

I still do all the stuff I did before. Go to bars, have parties (I'm a decent bar tender with my own subterranean tiki bar), whatev. My social life actually got a richer after. I enjoy all those things more now because nothing gets dulled out. Actually, every aspect of my life got better. Sure, I missed beer for a while a bit, but that went away. Now...I look at an ice cold beer...nothing. It's just another object.

 

Quitting also can improve your SO relationship. OK, you might have to trade in SOs, but still. Mine couldn't be better right now. If you're looking, women love a man who doesn't drink, because they get hassled by so many that do. I've been told time and time again that that gets really fucking old.

 

Frankly, I can't believe more peoople don't take this easy step towards a better quality of life.

 

Now...for serious boozers, that can be another matter. Some folks need outpatient or inpatient treatment. Some can never be anywhere close to booze ever again. That's another story entirely.

Edited January 11, 2012 by tvashtarkatena

[Jim]

The voters of WA will go for it.

 

Oh, I'm pretty sure the voters will support it, but it will be close. Latest polls show it has been losing support and would be close, but still would pass. I'll vote for it. The question of what comes next from the Justice Department is the crux. Will they be intimidated by the pot tea party of the Pacific NW? I doubt it.

[tvashtarkatena]

We're working that at the federal level, too, mon. State level action is easier, of course, but, in the end, you get as prepared as you can be, you work as hard as you can, and the chips will fall where they will.

 

Somebody's gotta take the first step towards ending this gargantuan form of tyranny and utter failure. WA is the perfect place for that to happen.

[tvashtarkatena]

The voters of WA will go for it.

 

Oh, I'm pretty sure the voters will support it, but it will be close. Latest polls show it has been losing support and would be close, but still would pass. I'll vote for it. The question of what comes next from the Justice Department is the crux. Will they be intimidated by the pot tea party of the Pacific NW? I doubt it.

 

I woudn't pay a lick of attention to the latest polls (I'm not aware of any loss of support, btw). There is always an 'opposition bump' once a) the thing is real and b) people find out about it.

 

Papers in Spokane, Everett, Seattle, and elsewhere have endorsed it. The media is def. getting on board. That's power, right there. Hell, even Glenn Beck is for it!