Solo application for Rainer

[quicker_than_ewe]

So what's the answer to doing these things solo Choada Boy? I'm waiting.

 

I just wanted to post in this important thread before it is moved to spray in 3,2,1....

[Choada_Boy]

I'd start out with a latent death wish, a healthy dose of narcissistic hubris, or pure ignorance leading to overconfidence. You seem to have at least two of the three. You'll be fine. Relationship problems help as well. So does a shitty plastic shovel, or better yet, an empty Big Gulp cup, for digging emergency snow shelters. But you know all this already, you're just asking your questions to see what other people think.

 

Another key to success is using up vacation time at work and scheduling a time frame within which you come from out of state and MUST complete the climb, regardless of the weather or route conditions. We've seen people have great success with that strategy recently. A poorly charged cell hone, PLB, and Tauntaun will add to your chances of success.

 

The basic problem with your essential question as I understand it is that it is actually a "koan". A person asking what it takes to solo Rainier is not a person ready to ask what it takes to solo Rainier. A person able to solo Rainier does not ask what it takes to solo Rainier. Get it?

 

 

[sobo]

Is there really a mechanism for denying a request? I actually doubt there is a set of requirements which must be met

 

To the OP, nice troll

 

Maybe if you knew there is literally an "application" to get a solo permit, you would have some business posting in this thread. Otherwise stop spraying my tread.

 

MP, this may sound like I'm coming off as an ass, but I say the following things in an effort to get you to pause momentarily and assess your real motiviations for soloing Rainier with what clearly appears to be a lack of the requisite experience. To wit, you come on this board 3 weeks ago and tell us you don't need your Baltura boots anymore cuz you're "not going to be doing any ice climbing or chilly mountaineering." Then you proceed to jump upon a thread wherein someone's selling a bunch of BD ice screws. Then you tell us that you've got these great BD ice tools but you have 0 ice climbing experience. Then you start asking questions about soloing Rainier and wanting to see if you get by with shit gear (that speedy shovel thingy) and why do people get up so early to summit Rainier.

 

I appreciate you reading my posts, but quite frankly your analysis sucks.

 

1. "Batura" ice climbing boots are not necessary to climb Rainier in summer conditions. Lighter mountaineering boots with a 3/4 shank are preferable.

2. I'm ice climbing and working on other technical skills, which HAVE NOTHING TO DO with the standard DC route on Rainer.

3. I never said I wanted to get by with "shit gear" and most soloists probably don't even bring a shovel. If started a thread on unicycles would you assume I would be planning ride one up there?

4. A 10pm to 2 am alpine start just doesn't make sense if you're climbing in good conditions. Maybe there is some freakish wind or some other weird glacier condition changing that isn't obvious.

 

This whole paragraph makes me think either/both your knowledge of gear or analysis of people's motives is pretty bad. By the way, what business it is of yours if I'm buying ice screws? Fuck off.

 

Then you ask for the answers to questions the solo permit application poses, apparently without having the answer already or taking the time to think these things through for yourself. It seems to me that you are asking questions that clearly indicate that you are in for a seriously rude awakening if you try to pull this off yourself at your current level of (in)experience.

 

Lol. Anyone who can use google can answer basic questions about glacier travel and crevasse rescue. On the other hand, who can answer a question about the same topics solo. It's like being asked how you would belay safely while doing a multi pitch route solo. The question doesn't make sense.

 

Although if the shit hits the fan for you, this ain't the Hamalaya or the Karakoram and someone will (most likely) stop to help you instead of leaving you there to die. But people do die on Rainier all the time, even on the easiest mule route. You give us the impression that you really don't know what you're doing or what you're getting into, and yet you insist on trying to pull this off solo. You are going to endanger yourself, or more importantly someone else, most likely your rescuers. Seriously, why are you doing this? Did you just break up with a LTR or what? We'd hate to read about you in the Tacoma Tribune or the PI.

 

First you criticize me for throwing away Batura's, and don't have enough ice climbing experience. Do you even know what the DC route is? Based on your post, you're the one playing mountaineer without a clue. And now it looks like you're a shrink too. So where do you get your safety tips? Page 303 of Freedom of the Hills? Guess what, I've read that too.

 

The bottom line is that I'm doing research months in advance for a possible solo attempt on Rainier. I've climbed higher peaks than Rainier solo, and traveled on alot of glaciers. By making this trip, I'm doing the same thing I've been doing for years. I have nothing to prove to you or need to prove to you. If you don't want to answer someone's questions that's fine, but you shouldn't shit on other people's threads.

You clearly are the greater mountaineer than I, Prince, and my 27-odd years of rock, ice, and alpine climbing and mountaineering, the last 22 of which were right here in the PNW, don't count for shit. And neither does my 9 years of mountain rescue experience, hauling princely mountaineers such as yourself off the flanks of several volcanoes around here. And neither does my dozen or so ascents of Rainier, not by the donkey routes, from almost all points of the compass, in all seasons and conditions, doesn't count for shit either. And niether do any of my many other ascents of other peaks and volcanoes, even your sacred 14-ers, they don't count for shit either, I guess. So you're right, I'm an e-mountaineer that has never done the DC. I don't ever intend to. It's a conga line in which I don not wish to participate. So you're right, I'm full of shit. So in your own words, fuck off!

What a douchebag. Even Summitchaser wasn't this obnoxious...

[Marmot Prince]

MP, they're trying to help you. Well, most are...

 

For the record, I found myself similarly nonplussed on just how to answer those same questions when I printed out one of those solo apps last year. And I am one of the fortunate who live close enough to be able to take multiple trips to these mountains and gain the experience necessary to not only enjoy them, but survive them as well.

 

There is some very sound advice, given in posts above.

 

Good luck,

 

d

 

Thanks for the advice.

 

You clearly are the greater mountaineer than I, Prince, and my 27-odd years of rock, ice, and alpine climbing and mountaineering, the last 20 of which were right here in the PNW, don't count for shit. And neither does my nine years of mountain rescue experience, hauling princely mountaineers such as yourself off the flanks of several volcanoes around here. And neither does my dozen or so ascents of Rainier, by all but the donkey routes, from almost all points of the compass, in all seasons, doesn't count for shit either. And niether do any of my many other ascents of other peaks and volcanoes, even your sacred 14-ers, they don't count for shit either, I guess. So you're right, I'm an e-mountaineer that has never done the DC. I don't ever intend to. It's a conga line in which I don not wish to participate. So you're right, I'm full of shit. So in your own words, fuck off!

What a douchebag. Even Summitchaser wasn't this obnoxious...

 

Again, this wasn't about resumes and it's interesting you felt the need to post yours. You might have well said you climbed K2 50x because all of your claimed experience makes your previous post about my lack of ice climbing experience sound even crazier. I guess I'll be hearing from you the next time you go trolling through my posts to jump on me for trying to buy ice screws, or when I make a thread discussing lightweight snow shovels. Sanctimonious sprayer.

 

I'd start out with a latent death wish, a healthy dose of narcissistic hubris, or pure ignorance leading to overconfidence. You seem to have at least two of the three. You'll be fine. Relationship problems help as well. So does a shitty plastic shovel, or better yet, an empty Big Gulp cup, for digging emergency snow shelters. But you know all this already, you're just asking your questions to see what other people think.

 

Another key to success is using up vacation time at work and scheduling a time frame within which you come from out of state and MUST complete the climb, regardless of the weather or route conditions. We've seen people have great success with that strategy recently. A poorly charged cell hone, PLB, and Tauntaun will add to your chances of success.

 

The basic problem with your essential question as I understand it is that it is actually a "koan". A person asking what it takes to solo Rainier is not a person ready to ask what it takes to solo Rainier. A person able to solo Rainier does not ask what it takes to solo Rainier. Get it?

 

 

The only narcissistic ignorance is being posted in this thread by you guys. It's funny how you people criticize me for being a noob, and then when I try to demonstrate experience at altitude by mentioning I climbed other mountains with the same height, use this to imply I've got a hardon for myself. Vacation time what? WTF are you talking about. I have no idea what these pyschoanalystic relationship problems you people keep referring to are. I'm not an amalgam of the bad things that have happened to you in your life. Stop projecting your own wierd problems onto my reasonable inquiries to climb a mountain.

Edited December 31, 2011 by Marmot Prince

[DPS]

advice like "Do not climb up into a storm." is not new news.

You'd be surprised.

 

why do you need to get up a 3am when a reasonably strong party can get to the summit and back to Muir in 6 hours?

 

A)Better to start in the dark than finish in the dark

B)6 hours is for a very strong team who doesn't get lost, doesn't get stuck behind anyone else, and has very good conditions.

C)Snow conditions become worse as the sun comes up.

 

Soloing Rainier is not like soloing 5.12 or something badaass like that. Slogging up a glacier by your lonesome doesn't feel a whole lot different than being roped up to someone, just a lot safer. Perhaps you should hook up with another climber for your first run up the big R.

Edited December 31, 2011 by DPS

[sobo]

You clearly are the greater mountaineer than I, Prince, and my 27-odd years of rock, ice, and alpine climbing and mountaineering, the last 20 of which were right here in the PNW, don't count for shit. And neither does my nine years of mountain rescue experience, hauling princely mountaineers such as yourself off the flanks of several volcanoes around here. And neither does my dozen or so ascents of Rainier, by all but the donkey routes, from almost all points of the compass, in all seasons, doesn't count for shit either. And niether do any of my many other ascents of other peaks and volcanoes, even your sacred 14-ers, they don't count for shit either, I guess. So you're right, I'm an e-mountaineer that has never done the DC. I don't ever intend to. It's a conga line in which I do not wish to participate. So you're right, I'm full of shit. So in your own words, fuck off!

What a douchebag. Even Summitchaser wasn't this obnoxious...

Again, this wasn't about resumes and it's interesting you felt the need to post yours. You might have well said you climbed K2 50x because all of your claimed experience makes your previous post about my lack of ice climbing experience sound even crazier. I guess I'll be hearing from you the next time you go trolling through my posts to jump on me for trying to buy ice screws, or when I make a thread discussing lightweight snow shovels. Sanctimonious sprayer.

I've climbed higher peaks than Rainier solo, and traveled on alot of glaciers. By making this trip, I'm doing the same thing I've been doing for years.

Upon examination of the posting chronology of this thread, it appears to my untrained e-mountaineer eye that you're the one who whipped out the dick-yardstick first, douchebag...

[Marmot Prince]

advice like "Do not climb up into a storm." is not new news.

You'd be surprised.

 

why do you need to get up a 3am when a reasonably strong party can get to the summit and back to Muir in 6 hours?

 

A)Better to start in the dark than finish in the dark

B)6 hours is for a very strong team who doesn't get lost, doesn't get stuck behind anyone else, and has very good conditions.

C)Snow conditions become worse as the sun comes up.

 

Soloing Rainier is not like soloing 5.12 or something badaass like that. Slogging up a glacier by your lonesome doesn't feel a whole lot different than being roped up to someone, just a lot safer. Perhaps you should hook up with another climber for your first run up the big R.

 

Pretty good points. Also, do you think HACE is possible? This is a little disturbing. I've done alot of climbing at rates at least as much as the Shasta guy who died, and I always assumed the worse that could happen is a headache. I've always read that HACE is rarely below 20k.

[DPS]

HACE is absolutely possible. I have gone from sea level - 14 k in less than 24 hrs many times with no problem, but when I camped at 14k I felt like shit: Chaines-Stokes breathing, lasitude, headache, lethargy. All the classic AMS symptoms. And that was after 5 days of prior acclimitaztion.

 

I don't presume to know what you do know, and what you don't know, so I'll just say this; Mt Rainier is unique in the lower 48. Nothing comes close. It is more of an Alaskan scale. I have seen crevasses every bit as big and bowel emptying on Rainier as in Alaska. I personally would never not rope up on most of the glaiciers. But that's just me.

[pcg]

It's like being asked how you would belay safely while doing a multi pitch route solo. The question doesn’t make sense.

Actually it does…

http://cascadeclimbers.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1033930

 

But, back to your main point…

I’m guessing the goal of the question you are referring to on the solo app is not so much to see if you are aware of some special technique for rescuing yourself from a crevasse, but more to ascertain how well you have thought things through, as well as to get some insight into your experience level and how you think when faced with unexpected challenges. The fact that you are going to the Internet searching for a textbook answer makes people suspect that you are missing the point, and that you therefore lack the experience necessary to answer the question, and therefore aren’t a good candidate for a solo attempt. Your pushing back at those who understandably think this and are trying to dissuade you invites spray.

 

As to a specific canned answer…

Describe your technical method of crossing crevasses safely:

How about – if there isn’t already a ladder across it, and if I can’t step across it or ski across it, I can’t cross it.

 

Describe your method of self-rescue from a crevasse:

For starters, if you fell in a crevasse and found yourself alive, upright, uninjured, and not wedged above a dark abyss (good luck with that, especially on Rainier), you could start walking. Sometimes you can walk to the end and climb out. If you can’t walk out and have screws and slings you could possibly climb and aid yourself out. Beyond that you have to think on your feet and use your intuition. Maybe you could tie something to the scrambling rope you have in your pack and lasso an anchor up above? There often are not textbook answers to performing a self rescue and experienced people are aware of that. Perhaps a textbook answer is not what the question is trying to get from you.

 

[dougd]

bout the only time I had trouble with AMS was flying into Denver, shooting up to camp @ 10k, hiking up Mt Elbert next day then heading through Leadville Co on the way to Lincoln, Democrat, Bras etc, camping at 12k seriously fucked me up. Some good quality schnapps didn't even help that's how bad it was! I hiked out three of the five 14ers next day but I was hosed...

 

AMS can hit anyone pretty much anytime in the mountains. It's hard to predict. Ascend 1k/hr is a good acclimatization rule...

 

Listen to these guys MP. If you approach the Cascades with the proper respect you'll be ok. Find a way to take the time to learn them, on their terms. They don't care about your life. That's up to you.

 

d

 

d

[Marmot Prince]

It's like being asked how you would belay safely while doing a multi pitch route solo. The question doesn’t make sense.

Actually it does…

http://cascadeclimbers.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1033930

 

But, back to your main point…

I’m guessing the goal of the question you are referring to on the solo app is not so much to see if you are aware of some special technique for rescuing yourself from a crevasse, but more to ascertain how well you have thought things through, as well as to get some insight into your experience level and how you think when faced with unexpected challenges. The fact that you are going to the Internet searching for a textbook answer makes people suspect that you are missing the point, and that you therefore lack the experience necessary to answer the question, and therefore aren’t a good candidate for a solo attempt. Your pushing back at those who understandably think this and are trying to dissuade you invites spray.

 

As to a specific canned answer…

Describe your technical method of crossing crevasses safely:

How about – if there isn’t already a ladder across it, and if I cant step across it or ski across it, I can’t cross it.

 

Describe your method of self-rescue from a crevasse:

For starters, if you fell in a crevasse and found yourself alive, upright, uninjured, and not wedged above a dark abyss, you could start walking. Sometimes you can walk to the end and climb out. If you can’t walk out and have screws and slings you could possibly climb and aid yourself out. Beyond that you have to think on your feet and use your intuition. Maybe you could tie something to the scrambling rope you have in your pack and lasso an anchor up above? There often are not textbook answers to performing a self rescue and experienced people are aware of that. Perhaps a textbook answer is not what the question is trying to get from you.

 

Fair points. But I poised the question to get general information about the application process and what is expected. I think the wording reflected that. After the 2nd or so post implying everyone got accepted, I basically answered along the lines you said and submitted the form a day ago.

 

The thread was intended to be useful not to get a textbook answer but to understand the application process, which I do now (it sounds like a rubber stamp). It's accomplished this.

 

Now as for the solo rope with a silent partner over 9 pitches, that truly sounds scary to me.

Edited December 31, 2011 by Marmot Prince

[G-spotter]

 

any experienced mountaineer knows the answer involves an alumnim ladder work around the waist.

 

since you had to ask, we know you aren't experienced.

 

therefore, two possibilities:

 

1) rangers lurking on this thread stamp your solo permit application with a big fat REFUSED when you submit it, or

 

2) you get it approved and then die.

 

Please, wear expensive clothes and take a SPOT. That way when you get pinned down and die I will know exactly where to look for the booty.

[Marmot Prince]

 

any experienced mountaineer knows the answer involves an alumnim ladder work around the waist.

 

since you had to ask, we know you aren't experienced.

 

therefore, two possibilities:

 

1) rangers lurking on this thread stamp your solo permit application with a big fat REFUSED when you submit it, or

 

2) you get it approved and then die.

 

Please, wear expensive clothes and take a SPOT. That way when you get pinned down and die I will know exactly where to look for the booty.

 

Whoops, picture fail.

 

How about instead of walking on the glacier, I'll tunnel underneath through the crevasses? No fall danger then. I'll put on all of the five arc'teryx jackets the dude at the outfitters store told me to buy just for you.

[ZimZam]

You're one funny dude. You remind me of the guy sitting in the West Rib bragging to the tourist girlies how he was going to solo Cassin Ridge. He made it as far as BC and hung out for three weeks and worked on his tan. For what it's worth, the rangers can't deny your request. However, once you're on the mountain and it becomes obvious that you are a hazard to yourself or others your permit can be yanked.

 

You gonna have two outcomes to MP's excellent adventure. Your going to have no problems, summit, and return to a hero's welcome, and all the bimbos throwing vajiji your way or a screamer suit/body bag. Wow! You get to short haul. LOL I'm thinking that once the braggadocio wears out, and you realize the extent of your foolhardiness, you'll see the light. Maybe try a traverse of the Pickets instead. Oh and just in case you want to travel under the the crevasses, find a moulin and glissade away. Happy New Year. Party hardy.

 

Seriously though dude, reconsider.

[rob]

 

Marmot prince, great troll. They were almost on to you, but then you brought up HACE and really set the hook. Nice work, I applaud you.

 

Showing up and laying down a couple of posts in other forums is def the way to go, isn't it? A hunter has to be patient -- people need a backstory.

Edited January 1, 2012 by rob

[ZimZam]

That way when you get pinned down and die I will know exactly where to look for the booty.

 

Necrophilia went out with the 20th century. 8D

[Marmot Prince]

 

Marmot prince, great troll. They were almost on to you, but then you brought up HACE and really set the hook. Nice work, I applaud you.

 

Showing up and laying down a couple of posts in other forums is def the way to go, isn't it? A hunter has to be patient -- people need a backstory.

 

I think the permit and useful advice were the main prize, but the angry posts definitely paid for the effort, like a fancy dessert after a main course.

[Marmot Prince]

You're one funny dude. You remind me of the guy sitting in the West Rib bragging to the tourist girlies how he was going to solo Cassin Ridge. He made it as far as BC and hung out for three weeks and worked on his tan. For what it's worth, the rangers can't deny your request. However, once you're on the mountain and it becomes obvious that you are a hazard to yourself or others your permit can be yanked.

 

You gonna have two outcomes to MP's excellent adventure. Your going to have no problems, summit, and return to a hero's welcome, and all the bimbos throwing vajiji your way or a screamer suit/body bag. Wow! You get to short haul. LOL I'm thinking that once the braggadocio wears out, and you realize the extent of your foolhardiness, you'll see the light. Maybe try a traverse of the Pickets instead. Oh and just in case you want to travel under the the crevasses, find a moulin and glissade away. Happy New Year. Party hardy.

 

Seriously though dude, reconsider.

 

You assume I am gungho set on the summit or not coming back. I've climbed more than a few mountains solo, but probably abandoned more attempts than I have made it. On my first solo, on Whitney, it was winter and I turned back at only 13,000'. I had light trail hikers on that couldn't really fit crampons and got some weird looks from a guide who was coming off the mountain.

 

I actually met up with some ski mountaineers from Redding who seemed friendly enough to accompany me to the summit, but I felt bad to do this, and watched them turn into little specs and disappear up the couloir and went back home.

 

If I see things I don't like on Rainier I'll just chill at Muir camp and head home, or bag something nearby without massive glaciers. It's nice to know the options though if I make a summit attempt and if there's any non-obvious dangers of pushing on.

 

 

[Choada_Boy]

The most non-obvious danger will be your own ignorance and inexperience.

[Marmot Prince]

The most non-obvious danger will be your own ignorance and inexperience.

 

I guess thats why I'm training and doing research months in advance?

[ScaredSilly]

FWIW ... when soloing big I tend to avoid routes with cracks. There are several such routes on Rainier. Of course the one time when in South American when climbing solo at over 6000m I went across a bridge on my ascent that promptly collapsed after I crossed it. My first thought was not shit that was close but shit how am I going to get around the crack on the descent (by crossing a equalling crappy bridge).

[Choada_Boy]

My condolences to friends and family.

[ZimZam]

However, once you're on the mountain and it becomes obvious that you are a hazard to yourself or others your permit can be yanked.

 

...Party hardy.

 

You assume I am gungho set on the summit or not coming back.

No not really. I'm beginning to think you're a troll, but you are DICK for flaming Sobo for offering his POV. wtf? You need to check yourself. JONG

[AlpineK]

Friends and I climbed the Cassin Ridge in 1987. We summited on July 1 and descended the West Ridge. At the medical camp at 14 we met this guy who was hot to solo the Cassin.

 

We told him the NE fork of the Kahiltna had a lot of scary crevasses to cross and they were probably bigger and badder then when we crossed them. We told him to at least find a party to rope up with while ascending the NE fork.

 

A month later I got a call from a Denali Park ranger. He had heard we talked to the guy and wanted to know what his plans were and where he was headed. I told him what I knew and ask why he was curious. Apparently they found tracks going into a giant debris pile in the NE Fork but none exiting.

 

Rainier ain't Denali but having a long hard think about what your skill level really is and why you have to solo the mountain doesn't hurt.

[Pete_H]

Its not a really big deal to solo the DC. Its been done in sneakers in under 5 hours. Helmstadlers probably done it in a lot less and just never told anyone.