Marmot Prince Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 How hard is it to get approved for soloing Rainer? I'm filling out the solo applications for Rainer...and I get these questions: Describe your technical method of crossing crevasses safely: Describe your method of self-rescue from a crevasse: Huh? Well there are conceivable ways to solo protect yourself, but involve travelling 3 times across the same area. Am I really expected to say this, what do the Rangers want to hear? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sobo Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 Technical crossing: You're a yogi and you can levitate. Crevass rescue: Tell 'em you're Harry Houdini's grandkid... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 I have gotten two solo permits and I don't remember this question. It may be new, but my answers would have had nothing to do with extraction but everything to do with avoidance. When on a heavily crevassed glacier, I generally prefer travel well after the most recent snow and when climbing anything snowy I generally prefer cooling rather than warning trend. I use a ski pole, without the basket, to probe around areas where I see a hint of a possible crevasse. In early winter, in Washington, a crevasse fall is a significant possibility (in August less so). My understanding is that they rarely or almost never flat out deny a solo permit if you actually apply for one but BE CAREFUL. Rainier is serious with a good team and more so if you are alone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oliver Klozhoff Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 No offense, but if you are unable to answer those questions with the means of satisfying a rangers standards then you probably should not consider a solo attempt. They are both pretty straight forward questions where your response should portray that you posses the experience and training crossing glaciers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmot Prince Posted December 31, 2011 Author Share Posted December 31, 2011 No offense, but if you are unable to answer those questions with the means of satisfying a rangers standards then you probably should not consider a solo attempt. They are both pretty straight forward questions where your response should portray that you posses the experience and training crossing glaciers. Thanks, I must have slept in during the standard course to safely travel glaciers solo. Also I didn't bother to read the beginner's guide on solo crevasse extraction. Before I cancel my Rainier trip, I'm dying to know what you think the answer to these straight forward questions are for a solo mountaineer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
genepires Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 (edited) what matt says -plus extensive time spent on washington glaciers and great feel for where the crevasses are. -using skiis to help keep from punching through -belief that god wouldn't do that to you -belief that the mountain wouldn't do that to you -got all your life insurance updated -for crevasse rescue, you got your nitro package ready -only traveling on when beaten climbers track (but what is the point of soloing on a herd trail?) good luck and safe travels Edited December 31, 2011 by genepires Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DPS Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 (edited) I have heard all kinds of gimmicks used to cross Alaskan glaciers solo using pickets or other anchors to self belay across crevasses, shower curtain rods strapped to yourself, etc. I gotta think there are no "right answers", but rather the questions are intended to make you think about the probability of protecting yourself against the very real, believe me, possibility of a crevasse fall, and how you intend to get yourself out should you survice such a fall. You could seriously write Captain Kirk's antigravity belt as the answer to both questions and it probably won't make any difference in your application. The rangers probably have no power to deney your solo permit, it will essentially get rubber stamped. IF the rangers were actually in the business of deciding who is capable or not of SAFELY soloing Rainier, they would be opening themselves up to huge liability when one of the APPROVED soloists dies in a crevasses fall. Edited December 31, 2011 by DPS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmot Prince Posted December 31, 2011 Author Share Posted December 31, 2011 Thanks for the tips. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sobo Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 MP, this may sound like I'm coming off as an ass, but I say the following things in an effort to get you to pause momentarily and assess your real motiviations for soloing Rainier with what clearly appears to be a lack of the requisite experience. To wit, you come on this board 3 weeks ago and tell us you don't need your Baltura boots anymore cuz you're "not going to be doing any ice climbing or chilly mountaineering." Then you proceed to jump upon a thread wherein someone's selling a bunch of BD ice screws. Then you tell us that you've got these great BD ice tools but you have 0 ice climbing experience. Then you start asking questions about soloing Rainier and wanting to see if you get by with shit gear (that speedy shovel thingy) and why do people get up so early to summit Rainier. Then you ask for the answers to questions the solo permit application poses, apparently without having the answer already or taking the time to think these things through for yourself. It seems to me that you are asking questions that clearly indicate that you are in for a seriously rude awakening if you try to pull this off yourself at your current level of (in)experience. Although if the shit hits the fan for you, this ain't the Hamalaya or the Karakoram and someone will (most likely) stop to help you instead of leaving you there to die. But people do die on Rainier all the time, even on the easiest mule route. You give us the impression that you really don't know what you're doing or what you're getting into, and yet you insist on trying to pull this off solo. You are going to endanger yourself, or more importantly someone else, most likely your rescuers. Seriously, why are you doing this? Did you just break up with a LTR or what? We'd hate to read about you in the Tacoma Tribune or the PI. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
num1mc Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 (edited) Is there really a mechanism for denying a request? I actually doubt there is a set of requirements which must be met To the OP, nice troll Edited December 31, 2011 by num1mc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sobo Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 Mark, I doubt there is, too, as DPS surmised above. If the NPS starts deciding who is qualified to attempt Rainier (or any other peak) and who is not, then they will be in for some serious liability shit-slingin' as soon as a "qualified" hiker/climber gets killed... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
num1mc Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 We'd hate to read about you in the Tacoma Tribune or the PI. Yea, those journals are rags. Hell, one of them isn't even a paper. Go for the Seattle Times, page B1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DPS Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 Assuming you aren't funning the locals, here is something you may want to read. http://www.summitpost.org/so-you-want-to-climb-mt-rainier/507227 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmot Prince Posted December 31, 2011 Author Share Posted December 31, 2011 (edited) Is there really a mechanism for denying a request? I actually doubt there is a set of requirements which must be met To the OP, nice troll Maybe if you knew there is literally an "application" to get a solo permit, you would have some business posting in this thread. Otherwise stop spraying my tread. MP, this may sound like I'm coming off as an ass, but I say the following things in an effort to get you to pause momentarily and assess your real motiviations for soloing Rainier with what clearly appears to be a lack of the requisite experience. To wit, you come on this board 3 weeks ago and tell us you don't need your Baltura boots anymore cuz you're "not going to be doing any ice climbing or chilly mountaineering." Then you proceed to jump upon a thread wherein someone's selling a bunch of BD ice screws. Then you tell us that you've got these great BD ice tools but you have 0 ice climbing experience. Then you start asking questions about soloing Rainier and wanting to see if you get by with shit gear (that speedy shovel thingy) and why do people get up so early to summit Rainier. I appreciate you reading my posts, but quite frankly your analysis sucks. 1. "Batura" ice climbing boots are not necessary to climb Rainier in summer conditions. Lighter mountaineering boots with a 3/4 shank are preferable. 2. I'm ice climbing and working on other technical skills, which HAVE NOTHING TO DO with the standard DC route on Rainer. 3. I never said I wanted to get by with "shit gear" and most soloists probably don't even bring a shovel. If started a thread on unicycles would you assume I would be planning ride one up there? 4. A 10pm to 2 am alpine start just doesn't make sense if you're climbing in good conditions. Maybe there is some freakish wind or some other weird glacier condition changing that isn't obvious. This whole paragraph makes me think either/both your knowledge of gear or analysis of people's motives is pretty bad. By the way, what business it is of yours if I'm buying ice screws? Fuck off. Then you ask for the answers to questions the solo permit application poses, apparently without having the answer already or taking the time to think these things through for yourself. It seems to me that you are asking questions that clearly indicate that you are in for a seriously rude awakening if you try to pull this off yourself at your current level of (in)experience. Lol. Anyone who can use google can answer basic questions about glacier travel and crevasse rescue. On the other hand, who can answer a question about the same topics solo. It's like being asked how you would belay safely while doing a multi pitch route solo. The question doesn't make sense. Although if the shit hits the fan for you, this ain't the Hamalaya or the Karakoram and someone will (most likely) stop to help you instead of leaving you there to die. But people do die on Rainier all the time, even on the easiest mule route. You give us the impression that you really don't know what you're doing or what you're getting into, and yet you insist on trying to pull this off solo. You are going to endanger yourself, or more importantly someone else, most likely your rescuers. Seriously, why are you doing this? Did you just break up with a LTR or what? We'd hate to read about you in the Tacoma Tribune or the PI. First you criticize me for throwing away Batura's, and don't have enough ice climbing experience. Do you even know what the DC route is? Based on your post, you're the one playing mountaineer without a clue. And now it looks like you're a shrink too. So where do you get your safety tips? Page 303 of Freedom of the Hills? Guess what, I've read that too. The bottom line is that I'm doing research months in advance for a possible solo attempt on Rainier. I've climbed higher peaks than Rainier solo, and traveled on alot of glaciers. By making this trip, I'm doing the same thing I've been doing for years. I have nothing to prove to you or need to prove to you. If you don't want to answer someone's questions that's fine, but you shouldn't shit on other people's threads. Edited December 31, 2011 by Marmot Prince Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmot Prince Posted December 31, 2011 Author Share Posted December 31, 2011 Assuming you aren't funning the locals, here is something you may want to read. http://www.summitpost.org/so-you-want-to-climb-mt-rainier/507227 Useful thread, but I'm not as stupid as some other posters seem to assume, and advice like "Do not climb up into a storm." is not new news. On the other hand, again, why do you need to get up a 3am when a reasonably strong party can get to the summit and back to Muir in 6 hours? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
num1mc Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 Is there really a mechanism for denying a request? I actually doubt there is a set of requirements which must be met To the OP, nice troll Maybe if you knew there is literally an "application" to get a solo permit, you would have some business posting in this thread. Otherwise stop spraying my tread. I'm sorry if you think I was spraying all over your troll. I know there is an application, troll. My point, troll, is that there is not a list of right and wrong answers inside the CFR. The only enforceable requirements to the application is to fill the application out. In any event, good climbing and happy trolling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmot Prince Posted December 31, 2011 Author Share Posted December 31, 2011 I'm sorry if you think I was spraying all over your troll. I know there is an application, troll. My point, troll, is that there is not a list of right and wrong answers inside the CFR. The only enforceable requirements to the application is to fill the application out. In any event, good climbing and happy trolling I wish you were self aware enough to realize you're the one actually trolling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Choada_Boy Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 MP: You come off like a real douche bag. Perhaps this is why you're planning a solo attempt? No one can stand your company? Regarding your "planned ascent": Go for it! You clearly have all the experience you need and are only asking your seriously dumb ass questions for the fun of it. I'm sure you'll have no problems cruising from Muir to the top in less than 2 hours and sleeping on the summit. I would suggest, though, that you do SAR a favor and sew six webbing loops onto the sides of your sleeping bag so that they may more easily drag your corpse off the mountain. Best wishes!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmot Prince Posted December 31, 2011 Author Share Posted December 31, 2011 MP: You come off like a real douche bag. Perhaps this is why you're planning a solo attempt? No one can stand your company? Regarding your "planned ascent": Go for it! You clearly have all the experience you need and are only asking your seriously dumb ass questions for the fun of it. I'm sure you'll have no problems cruising from Muir to the top in less than 2 hours and sleeping on the summit. I would suggest, though, that you do SAR a favor and sew six webbing loops onto the sides of your sleeping bag so that they may more easily drag your corpse off the mountain. Best wishes!! Actually this started off as a pretty reasonable question. People like you who think their are better then me just because you can act like a Grandma douched up this thread. Guess what, it's easy to be sanctimonious but to give a knowledgeable answer is alot harder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Choada_Boy Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 You're fun! But here goes: How hard is it to get approved for soloing Rainer? I'm filling out the solo applications for Rainer...and I get these questions: Describe your technical method of crossing crevasses safely: Describe your method of self-rescue from a crevasse: Huh? Well there are conceivable ways to solo protect yourself, but involve travelling 3 times across the same area. Am I really expected to say this, what do the Rangers want to hear? "Huh?" Wha??? Rangers are asking you, on an application for a permit to solo Rainier, how you'd protect and rescue yourself from a crevasse fall? This seems shocking, with all your experience on 14ers (which doesn't really count for shit)? "What do the Rangers want to hear?" My guess it that they are trying to figure out how many hours it will be after you depart before they have to start risking their own lives to either try to save your dumb ass or try and find your dead body. This allows them to plan on getting to Muir in time to smoke enough pot in the hut. But again: Go For It!! You've got what it takes! The people on this board don't know shit, and they most certainly have never seen posts like yours from a person like you. You might even get your ascent published in next years AINAM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmot Prince Posted December 31, 2011 Author Share Posted December 31, 2011 I think a big problem here is that certain people look at a question and make judgements based on their assumptions of the knowledge it demonstrates. I often ask questions to things I already know (or at least think I know well). For example, I'll ask a trad climber how he looks for good nut placements. I've placed alot of nuts on alot of routes, but I want to know anyways because he might have original insight that I don't know, or some tips for the particular situation. That certainly doesn't mean I can't make a safe nut placement. It looks like by mentioning solo and rainier in a thread, I've stirred up a bit of a hornests among the e-mountainers here. But thats what the ignore button is for Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmot Prince Posted December 31, 2011 Author Share Posted December 31, 2011 "Huh?" Wha??? Rangers are asking you, on an application for a permit to solo Rainier, how you'd protect and rescue yourself from a crevasse fall? This seems shocking, with all your experience on 14ers (which doesn't really count for shit)? Thanks, I must have slept in during the standard course to safely travel glaciers solo. Also I didn't bother to read the beginner's guide on solo crevasse extraction. Before I cancel my Rainier trip, I'm dying to know what you think the answer to these straight forward questions are for a solo mountaineer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Choada_Boy Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 "Huh?" Wha??? Rangers are asking you, on an application for a permit to solo Rainier, how you'd protect and rescue yourself from a crevasse fall? This seems shocking, with all your experience on 14ers (which doesn't really count for shit)? Thanks, I must have slept in during the standard course to safely travel glaciers solo. Also I didn't bother to read the beginner's guide on solo crevasse extraction. Before I cancel my Rainier trip, I'm dying to know what you think the answer to these straight forward questions are for a solo mountaineer. Perhaps you should have stayed awake during the glacier travel course and read the beginner's guide. Maybe that's your problem right there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmot Prince Posted December 31, 2011 Author Share Posted December 31, 2011 So what's the answer to doing these things solo Choada Boy? I'm waiting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougd Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 MP, they're trying to help you. Well, most are... For the record, I found myself similarly nonplussed on just how to answer those same questions when I printed out one of those solo apps last year. And I am one of the fortunate who live close enough to be able to take multiple trips to these mountains and gain the experience necessary to not only enjoy them, but survive them as well. There is some very sound advice, given in posts above. Good luck, d Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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