tvashtarkatena Posted September 13, 2011 Posted September 13, 2011 Poverty in US highest in two decades Quote
Jim Posted September 13, 2011 Posted September 13, 2011 ....and the latest data show about 17% of the US population is without health insurance. Stunning. Quote
ivan Posted September 13, 2011 Posted September 13, 2011 "The poverty line in 2010 was at $22,113 for a family of four." Â no wonder pbr is so popular... Quote
tvashtarkatena Posted September 13, 2011 Author Posted September 13, 2011 ....and the latest data show about 17% of the US population is without health insurance. Stunning. Â My health care went up 20% last year and 10% this year. Â People who argue for single payer hate America, though. The current corporate system is doing an awesome job...of fleecing. Quote
Buckshot Posted September 13, 2011 Posted September 13, 2011 Yes, lets hurt business then I won't have any healthcare to complain about. Or a paycheck. Â Lets end all those big oil companies too. Then we can refine our own oil in our garages, that ought to work. Â Quote
KaskadskyjKozak Posted September 13, 2011 Posted September 13, 2011 Yes, lets hurt business then I won't have any healthcare to complain about. Or a paycheck. Â Â One business is arguably hurting a significant portion of Americans in the aggregate. How many people are employed in the health insurance industry and would not be able to work for the government should it go single-payer... Â Or are you trying to argue something else? Quote
rob Posted September 13, 2011 Posted September 13, 2011 (edited) Yes, lets hurt business then I won't have any healthcare to complain about. Or a paycheck. Â Â where do you draw the line? Does the minimum wage "hurt business?" Or should anything that "hurts business" be done away with? By that logic, should we make all businesses tax free? Don't taxes "hurt business?" Â Or, is it maybe OK to "hurt business" a little bit, if it's in the best interest of everyone else? Or do you think we should get rid of OSHA, payroll taxes, corporate income taxes, fairness-in-hiring laws, minimum wage, etc. etc. etc.? Â Curious what sorts of measures you think are acceptable. Edited September 13, 2011 by rob Quote
prole Posted September 13, 2011 Posted September 13, 2011 Yes, lets hurt business then I won't have any healthcare to complain about. Or a paycheck. Â Lets end all those big oil companies too. Then we can refine our own oil in our garages, that ought to work. Â Record profits for American corporations, and yet... Â Enough with an ideology that claims what's good for business is always good for the rest of us. Times have changed, wake up and smell the emerging Third World-style class structure. Â Â Quote
Rad Posted September 13, 2011 Posted September 13, 2011 Fear not: tax cuts for the rich will cure all of these ailments, or so they would have you believe. Quote
prole Posted September 13, 2011 Posted September 13, 2011 Fear not: tax cuts for the rich will cure all of these ailments, or so they would have you believe. Â Of course it isn't just that: environmental standards, workplace health and safety, permitting, zoning, minimum wages, etc, etc, etc. All considered "onerous" by corporate America and the wannabe class of "small business owners". We've been going through 30 years of this restructuring process, what have we to show? An economy dependent on successive unsustainable bubbles and workers held hostage to a race to the bottom in living standards while a small percentage of the population cashes out. Quote
jon Posted September 13, 2011 Posted September 13, 2011 Has anyone ever considered that the lack of a better health care system discourages entrepreneurship? The risks of starting your own business are already huge. Is your family's health worth it? It would be interesting to know how many people this has discouraged and compare the rates with countries with coverage for all. Â Oh, and shouldn't Bank of America be renamed Bank of Shareholders. Your welcome for the bailout. Quote
rob Posted September 13, 2011 Posted September 13, 2011 Has anyone ever considered that the lack of a better health care system discourages entrepreneurship? The risks of starting your own business are already huge. Is your family's health worth it? It would be interesting to know how many people this has discouraged and compare the rates with countries with coverage for all. Oh, and shouldn't Bank of America be renamed Bank of Shareholders. Your welcome for the bailout.  Not to mention the huge expense that health benefits for employees represents. That's a constant pain-point for the small-business owners I know. I imagine they'd be thrilled to not have to provide that anymore. Quote
tvashtarkatena Posted September 13, 2011 Author Posted September 13, 2011 The pro/anti-'business' thought pattern has been planted into the population by the insurance industry, who is making a killing on today's health care system by skimming from everyone else - businesses who offer health care and individuals alike. It's complete bullshit, of course; it's really one predatory business against everyone else, but those unable to think more than a half step behind buy this lobbyist bullshit lock stock and barrel. Â If, of course, a politician dares to go after the insurance industry for their fleecing operation, they're labeled 'anti business'. Â Old trick, but there are jack russels and blood hounds, if you know what I mean. Quote
tvashtarkatena Posted September 13, 2011 Author Posted September 13, 2011 It still amazes me how the Righties here parrot those spoon fed sound bytes so accurately. Damn. I would never imagined that amateurish shit would work on anybody, but hey...the average IQ is 100, right? Â Â Quote
Buckshot Posted September 14, 2011 Posted September 14, 2011 Its odd how the same people who hate the pharmaceutical industry also want free medicine from the government. Do we want big pharm companies inventing medicine for our government to give to us for free or not? Or is it more of the "F#$k all corporations" mantra we hear? Will a democracy only last until the people realize they can vote themselves money out of the state treasury? Â Quote
olyclimber Posted September 14, 2011 Posted September 14, 2011 isn't that what the lobbies do already? Quote
ivan Posted September 14, 2011 Posted September 14, 2011 Will a democracy only last until the people realize they can vote themselves money out of the state treasury? i thought we were a republic? Quote
JayB Posted September 14, 2011 Posted September 14, 2011 Â Â http://www.freakonomics.com/2011/09/14/whats-the-best-way-to-measure-poverty-income-or-consumption/ Quote
tvashtarkatena Posted September 14, 2011 Author Posted September 14, 2011 Its odd how the same people who hate the pharmaceutical industry also want free medicine from the government. Do we want big pharm companies inventing medicine for our government to give to us for free or not? Or is it more of the "F#$k all corporations" mantra we hear? Will a democracy only last until the people realize they can vote themselves money out of the state treasury? Â Insurance industry, not Big Pharma. Big Pharma is in the toilette right now - massive layoffs, no new drugs to speak of. Why? About 15 years ago sales and marketing folks took over the industry and 'ran it like a business'. Â They forgot the science/R&D part. Furthermore, they began to cook the books on their studies. Hyjinks ensued. Now they're soundly fucked. Quote
tvashtarkatena Posted September 14, 2011 Author Posted September 14, 2011 Erosion of the middle class Quote
ivan Posted September 14, 2011 Posted September 14, 2011 i always wanted to live in a lost decade Quote
ivan Posted September 14, 2011 Posted September 14, 2011 They forgot the science/R&D part. Furthermore, they began to cook the books on their studies. Hyjinks ensued. Now they're soundly fucked. on the plus side though, if yer koch is broken, they did figure out an army of drugs to fix it, and soon (?) to be generic! Quote
KaskadskyjKozak Posted September 14, 2011 Posted September 14, 2011 i always wanted to live in a lost decade  a decade of decadence? Quote
ivan Posted September 14, 2011 Posted September 14, 2011 i always wanted to live in a lost decade  a decade of decadence? hemingway made it sound so bitch'n! Quote
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