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Scott_J

trail clearing

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If I said what piece I liked my wife would hit me. This has been a good thread. What I want is good trails where they have been.I'm not asking for trail systems into the heart of the North Cascades, that's what helicopters are for. hahaha. I have horse backed in, bicycled in, fixed wing and rotored into places as well as walked, skiied,snowshoed and used every sort of water transportation you can think of to get to places I have wanted to go. Why have I done this? TO HAVE FUN AND ENJOY MYSELF. Anyway I have had fun with this thread I'll be back in a few days. I'm off to use our National Treasures before Allison comes up with some new "legal spegle" that says I have to do something special to use the backcountry.

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Nicely stated, Off.

 

After having read the posts of the day, I would like to just say that if the majority of posts here in any way represent a sizable sector of the population's views on Wilderness, well, then, thank goodness we have Wilderness.

 

Double flame suit on.

 

PS. Now that I have my double flame suit on, Erik, you're starting to sound hysterical. Take a deep breath, my friend.

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quote:

Which p word, piece? Did you mean 38 or 44 caliber?


psssst...buddy, over here........"population". [Eek!]

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Poseur, being a good old American boy I like BIG BORE guns. In fact my moose gun was a .338 belted round, but if you really wanted to know what I would like hahahah .50 cal, recoilless, with a starlite scope shooting 2 inches high at 1000 metres. No night vision for me just a starlight. [big Grin] I suggested chain saw many moons ago AK. I know you have a job and all so you cannot be expected to up to speed on this as well as us lay abouts that live on the dole

 

[ 07-22-2002, 09:14 PM: Message edited by: sisu suomi ]

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Again, in my opinion if it's an established trail, regardless whether located in forest or designated wilderness, back country managers and/or volunteers should be able to effectively maintain them employing whatever means...up to and including nukes. Dennis Harmon

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If you need a tank to get into an "established trail" then I dont think the land managers are up to par. Common sense on established definition to be given. IE not the Toketie Lake trail or something...

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another rambling-

 

They can put in 18 new parking spots and 3 new crappers. But they cant saw down some deadfall\windfall etc [Roll Eyes] on the trail next to those parking spots.....

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Captain: I try and not make assumptions about the ages of folks on this board unless they've announced them, and I hope to not play the old fart know it all, others are much better at it and more entitled [big Grin] As much as anything, I was trying to line out something that has been percolating in my head for a few weeks. I had about an 8 year hiatus from the mountains, aside from a couple trips, due to children, business, and my main partner becoming disinterested in the alpine game. Consequently, my reentry over the last couple years has highlighted what I think is a large increase in the numbers of folks climbing in the Cascades in the last decade. If you've been out there each year inbetween, I think the change doesn't seem so dramatic since it comes in smaller increments. Maybe its also partly my discovery of this board, and just how many people there are with a passion for what the Cascades offer. There was a time not so long ago I'd have never encountered you or had a clue what you've been up to, aside from passing you on a trail or seeing you as a dot down on a moraine somewhere.

 

Erik: I've wondered about the whole trail deal also. If a rap sling is verboten (still under debate, I believe) then why would something as intrusive a trail (and signs!) be okay? What about maps, shouldn't wilderness areas just be blank grey sections, perhaps with a few drawings of fantastical creatures and the notation "here there be monsters?" I've been to both ends of the pendulum, from "why the hell hasn't anyone maintained this trail in 10 years, this is a pain in the ass" to "damn, that was lot of work, but it keeps the riff-raff out." There certainly is an appeal to making access harder rather than easier. Maybe that comprise you mention is this bizarre system of low tech infrequent trail repair: not too fast and not too much at any time.

 

I do confess the "no wheelbarrow" business confuses the hell out of me. You can use a simple machine like the shovel (lever) but if you combine two simple machines (lever and wheel) to make a wheelbarrow?

 

And while I'm spewing vast quantities of written word, does anyone know where the trails came from in the first place? I don't mean the original vague footpaths used in antiquity, who built, graded, an signed them? I've always assumed much of it came from the CCC (civilian conservation corps) back in the 30's, but don't know for sure.

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[Roll Eyes][Roll Eyes][sleep] there are better ways to step outside the insanity and hypocracy of our government.

 

[ 07-23-2002, 09:05 AM: Message edited by: sk ]

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Off White, I liked a lot of what you wrote..."Fixing trails should be done to enhance the recreation of the people...the only problem is who is defining "recreation." I favor the muscle powered form...." The Wilderness Act was designed to keep the 'motor-heads,' i.e. ATV, snowmobilers and motorcycle riders at bay. I don't believe it was ever intended to keep us 'foot-soldiers' away. But, I guess, if that's the price I have to pay, then I'll rescind all of my prior posts on this topic. I've never said that I've never been wrong before. Dennis Harmon

 

[ 07-23-2002, 09:54 PM: Message edited by: Dennis Harmon ]

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Oh, god Poseur, I am all excited. Just think moose at 1000 metres or more and IF you get a good clean head shot or neck the meat is still all there!!!!!

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I'm afraid that thru my ramblings the subject of trail clearing has slipped away. Dennis mentioned motor head and their interestes. You know what. Hikers, climbers, motor heads, mountain bikers, fishermen(I refuse to PC about an old term applied to both sexes), hunters(all types of hunting) and anyone I have missed that uses the out of doors, all these groups need to unite to tell the feds, state and local government that they want areas open and usuable for themselves. Some of these groups can coexist with each other, but fighting amoung themselves as to who has a better use of what is senseless. An anology if you will. During the 1700's thru the early 1900's the in fighting amoung the American Indian allowed the European settler to take control of their land, their religion of choice, ways of dress, language etc. When I think of out door users and all the in fighting I always think of this and how fortunate the afore mentioned government groups are that "we" have not figuered out how to impact the powers to be. I don't care to be involved in motor head sports, pure mountain biking for biking sake either Dennis, but to show the govenment we are serious you sometimes have to sleep with strange bed fellows to get what you want. [Roll Eyes]

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I would like to point out a few practical things to those of you who don’t have much experience working outdoors.

 

First off, cutting and moving brush and logs is hard work even if you have power tools like chain saws.

 

Secondly, the forest circus has a limited budget for trail clearing.

 

Third, do you extreme wilderness lovers have any idea why large manual crosscut saws were called, “misery whips?”

 

I say get things done as fast and efficiently as possible. That means using chainsaws on trails in wilderness areas; that way us tax payers get the biggest bang for our buck.

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... speaking of "bang" for our buck, isn't that how the forest circus can legally and quickly remove major obstacles, blowin' shit up? That is, dynamite?

 

By the way, I doubt all this avalanche debris across the trails is a plot by the feds. I think it has something to do with this last winter [Roll Eyes] .

 

That being said, it did appear that the mid fork road was pretty bad this last weekend. There were even a few junker cars that appeared to have been dug out of the woods and left right near the road. Must be a damn ploy by those steenkin' feds and eco nuts to convince everybody we need close down the Mid Fork Road [Mad][Mad][Moon] .

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They may have a limited budget, but then who has a limitless one? It comes down to what our government spends money on and also what direction they or rather we the people want to see recreation go. Perhaps money could be redirected from other areas?

 

http://www.loper.org/~george/trends/1998/Oct/17.html

 

50 millions would go a long way towards our trails. Naw.

 

As an aside, the Middle Fork road is going to be paved to Taylor River and gated at Dingford Creek last I heard.

 

[ 07-25-2002, 07:26 PM: Message edited by: not a climber ]

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Amen to the Middle Fork closure. Get out yer mtn bike. And remember: brush is a preserver of wilderness values.

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