fixed draws on new overhanging route?

[Rad]

Developing a great new line on a continuously overhanging wall. When does one think of leaving fixed draws, like at 32 or other places, vs expecting people to add qdraws as they go? I imagine that bolt placement might be slightly different for these scenarios. Clipping will definitely be strenuous in the middle of the route. Any thoughts from people who have developed new overhanging routes? I want to do it right the first time. Thanks.

 

[el jefe]

no hard and fast rules that i know of. if it seems like a real pain in the ass to get the draw on the bolt in the first place, then equipping with fixed draws seems to make sense to me.

[Rad]

Thx. It could also be a PITA to get the lower draws off the route when cleaning.

[genepires]

Hey Rad, you could leave behind one of those cable swage draws (no nylon) fixed with biners on it. Maybe yates? Would definately last longer but more importantly, would be less visually obtrusive.

 

maybe not yates but there some american company that made them some years ago. Maybe someone with a better memory can chime in.

Edited June 28, 2010 by genepires

[fenderfour]

Frost Powerdraws might be what you are looking for.

 

http://www.frostworksclimbing.com/powerdraws.html

[boadman]

Developing a great new line on a continuously overhanging wall. When does one think of leaving fixed draws, like at 32 or other places, vs expecting people to add qdraws as they go? I imagine that bolt placement might be slightly different for these scenarios. Clipping will definitely be strenuous in the middle of the route. Any thoughts from people who have developed new overhanging routes? I want to do it right the first time. Thanks.

 

Generally, I really like fixed draws, because I'm lazy. I think that if there aren't really any access issues associated with the crag, and it's a place will only climbers will go, there aren't too many drawbacks associated with fixed draws, except for the obvious ones associated with complacency about sketchy old nylon that's been hanging out in the elements for 10 years. Quicklinks on top for sure. The only problem I see with the Frost wire draws is that they would suck to grab if you're dogging a problem and were having trouble clipping.

 

Is the location of this continuously over-hanging wall a secret?

[Rad]

I have taken people there but haven't posted detailed info on the interweb yet. So far there are about a dozen pitches, mostly in the 10-11 range. Starting to work on one or two harder lines, including the one that sparked this thread. If you want a tour send a pm.

[Weekend_Climberz]

Same area? Or are you working a new cliff now bud?

[TimL]

I have taken people there but haven't posted detailed info on the interweb yet. So far there are about a dozen pitches, mostly in the 10-11 range. Starting to work on one or two harder lines, including the one that sparked this thread. If you want a tour send a pm.

 

Rad, I have some experience with this. First, how overhanging is it? Second, are you going to leave fixed draws to make clipping more comfortable, are there hard clips, or are you going to live fixed draws to help in cleaning the draws that are not fixed. Many times I see every other or every two draws fixed to help in cleaning the route when you lower off. Generally I see fixed draws when it's a roof or overhanging 10 or more meters when the length of the route is 35 meters or higher. You also gotta think if it is almost impossible to clean, etc. And I want to go to the place when i get back.

[RuMR]

also, consider leaving chunks of chains with a quicklink at eac bolt...not as unsightly as fixed tat and easy to swap out a single biner after too much wear than to go up and replace whole draws...

[boadman]

also, consider leaving chunks of chains with a quicklink at eac bolt...not as unsightly as fixed tat and easy to swap out a single biner after too much wear than to go up and replace whole draws...

 

Chain is easier to grab when desperate too.

[Kimmo]

When does one think of leaving fixed draws, like at 32 or other places, vs expecting people to add qdraws as they go? I imagine that bolt placement might be slightly different for these scenarios. Clipping will definitely be strenuous in the middle of the route. Any thoughts from people who have developed new overhanging routes? I want to do it right the first time. Thanks.

 

i think leaving fixed draws is more of a convenience for future climbers. one situation where it isn't is when cleaning the route is dangerous, such as when you clean your last draw and are faced with a hard swing into trees or somesuch. definitely leave a fixed draw there.

 

just make sure the bolts or fixed draws are reachable by people of all statures. it's sucky when shorter people crux out on the clips. spooner, a retro-bolted route at index that i just climbed, seems to suffer from this. i'm 6'1" and could barely make the reaches after the runouts. there's no reason to do this.

[Rad]

Thanks for the input. Probably overhangs 10-20 feet in 35-50 ht, depending on the line. Strenuous is relative. Not placing draws may make a difference for my redpoint, but I'm sure stronger climbers would be fine placing draws. The issue is more of convenience and ease of cleaning.

 

My intention is to complete the first route on the wall, perhaps work on others, and get people out to climb the routes. Just as I would prefer to have follow-on users develop consensus ratings for the routes, I expect they will help determine whether/which fixed draws/chains/wires should be left in situ. And yes, my goal is to create a route that will be enjoyed by climbers of all statures.

 

@wknd: same.

 

 

 

[Weekend_Climberz]

I need to get back out there with you, but my Exit 38 visits as of lately have been involving more gunpowder than arm power.

[andyf]

Frost Powerdraws might be what you are looking for.

 

http://www.frostworksclimbing.com/powerdraws.html

 

I generally don't like fixed draws, but I've equipped some select bolts at a steep, remote cliff with the Frost draws. They're a great product. You can call and speak to Tom directly; he's incredibly gracious.

[Edlinger]

The Frost draws are awesome. They are hard for tourists to see also. The only drawback is that they aren't the easy on the hands when grabing for projecting.

[summitchaserCJB]

So is grabbing draws OK for projecting while clipping bolts? Not that I do many sport PJ's but I'm just curious.

[el jefe]

summitchaser, the first rule of climbing is there are no rules!

[billcoe]

Developing a great new line on a continuously overhanging wall. When does one think of leaving fixed draws, like at 32 or other places, vs expecting people to add qdraws as they go? I imagine that bolt placement might be slightly different for these scenarios. Clipping will definitely be strenuous in the middle of the route. Any thoughts from people who have developed new overhanging routes? I want to do it right the first time. Thanks.

 

Rad, I can't answer the question, but I was wondering what kind of scratch is this going to set you back?

 

On the fixed draw thing, to me, if it's just for convenience, then your basically littering and pissing off a large group of your peers. I don't mind the visual myself, but I know lots of others do so if it was me, I'd only leave them if it was very, very difficult to unclip them afterwards. In the end, this is your call. You might wait till some other folks climb it and see what they say as none of us knows a darn thing about your place.

 

Good luck.

[Rad]

@SCJB, grabbing quickdraws can be dangerous if you catch your hand or finger in the biner. Generally better to take the fall.

 

@Bill, this particular line only has 5 bolts. Time and climbers will tell whether it merits fixed draws or not.

[summitchaserCJB]

summitchaser, the first rule of climbing is there are no rules!

Could of fooled me. But I tend to agree.

[summitchaserCJB]

Well, there is a rule in my book- don't die.

[RuMR]

@SCJB, grabbing quickdraws can be dangerous if you catch your hand or finger in the biner. Generally better to take the fall.

 

?? that's bs...

[area51]

I like painted chain and biners, keeps the crag stealth.

there are 7 chains in the photo.

[JosephH]

I like painted chain and biners, keeps the crag stealth.

Rat Cavers take note...