Troublesome Climbers, you know who you are

[Dan_Miller]

You'll love this... Come on folks, fess up! Fire a warning round or two, that'll make em scramble.

 

We had to cancel the avalanche control in the Liberty Bell Mtn. zone because a group of climbers ignored all our signs and Becker and Stanford had to pack up the howitzer and drive back to Twisp. Don says they may reschedule on Monday or Tuesday. He suggests you keep your fingers crossed that nothing slides in the meantime.

 

So - if you were waiting until 3 p.m. to head over the passes - you can leave now!

 

(I wonder if this would qualify for a Darwin Award?)

 

Jeff Adamson (509) 667-2815 adamsoj@wsdot.wa.gov

 

 

Edited May 7, 2010 by Dan_Miller

[Ryan Canfield]

you should have shot the howitzer at them and put the video up on youtube.

 

 

..you know i'm joking

 

[Spore]

Stanford should have popped a round at them !

[Dan_Miller]

Ryan and Spore,

 

I was hardly kidding when I posted the report from WSDOT's Jeff Adamson.

[summitchaserCJB]

Sounds a bit...er...irresponsible to me.

[Dane]

Ryan and Spore,

 

I was hardly kidding when I posted the report from WSDOT's Jeff Adamson.

 

Just curios what day this was...today..Friday morning?

Lots of TRs from up there recently.

[Off_White]

So, do I understand that they not only endangered themselves but they've increased risk for all users of the highway until your next round of avalanche control?

[JoshK]

So, do I understand that they not only endangered themselves but they've increased risk for all users of the highway until your next round of avalanche control?

 

Correct. It snowed quite heavily Wednesday night and a bit more Thursday. Driving under the chutes, they still look rather imposing. Apparently neither the snow nor a howitzer sounded imposing to these guys.

[ivan]

all that for the becky route or what?

[Dirtyleaf]

Shooting off guns at WAPass?! Dear god.

[rob]

So, do I understand that they not only endangered themselves but they've increased risk for all users of the highway until your next round of avalanche control?

 

If drivers on the highway are really at risk now because they were unable to perform avy control then they should close the highway. If the risk was really THAT much greater I think they wouldn't just say, "oh well, cross your fingers" and go home. Know what I mean?

Edited May 8, 2010 by rob

[Dane]

If drivers on the highway are really at risk now because they were unable to perform avy control then they should close the highway.

 

Yep, having done control work you either need to shoot or you don't. The guys were idiots for not paying attention to the signs and being on route. And should have been tracked down and cited.

 

But you don't flip a coin on control work. If you think it needs to be shot, you shoot. The idea is public safety trumps public access every time.

[summitchaserCJB]

I don't see any (recent) TR's from WA pass. Just curious, do you have a different place you look for them?

Edited May 8, 2010 by summitchaserCJB

[ScaredSilly]

Kinda of interesting. Around here, the Cottonwood Canyons in Oootah. They just close the the roads and start shooting. That said UDOT does sometimes give some warning a few hours ahead of time. However, if you get out in the BC before they are shooting well you are fair game. It happens now and then because of folks doing dawn patrols (been there down that).

 

So I have to ask what kind of signage was out? Was there a chance that the "climbers" would not have seen the signage? If the signage was that obvious then why not issue a citation - obviously there must have been a vehicle. Again in our canyons there are sections that are no parking or stopping during the winter months.

 

 

[tvashtarkatena]

If this was Thu, we were up across the road from Lib Bell skiing midday to afternoon and didn't see shit for signage or avi crews. Nada. Before the Mommy Dearest Crew here gets too worked up blaming the climbers, perhaps the idea that it was a simple misunderstanding rather than a willful act might be considered.

Edited May 8, 2010 by tvashtarkatena

[Dan_Miller]

You folks made the Seattle Times. If I'n not way off base here I believe the Chutes they were attempting to stabilize are the notorius Cutthroat avalanche paths. These are well depicted on the WSDOT North Cascade Hwy. website.

 

By Kristin Jackson

 

Seattle Times

 

Avalanche control on the North Cascades Highway has been canceled for this afternoon, and the highway has not shut between noon and 3 p.m. as was planned.

 

A group of mountain climbers ignored the avalanche-control warning signs Friday and went into the area where controlled blasts were scheduled, said Jeff Adamson of the Washington State Department of Transportation. That meant crews could not fire howitzers to set off controlled avalanches in the Liberty Bell area.

 

The avalanche control may be rescheduled for Monday or Tuesday, but the pass is open Friday afternoon.

 

Get updates at www.wsdot.wa.gov

 

 

[tvashtarkatena]

You're about 24 hours off base in our particular case. We were in there a day earlier. That, and the fact that all the slopes we were skiing empty into a valley well below the highway; they're not targets for control.

 

My original point, which you've just punctuated beautifully, is that its usually best to assume the more likely 'honest mistake' possibility in these instances, rather than give into the armchair instinct to dog pile on people you don't know regarding a situation you weren't involved with.

 

Or, you can track down the perps and cite them. LOL.

Edited May 8, 2010 by tvashtarkatena

[JoshK]

You folks made the Seattle Times.

 

LOL....Not sure where you decided it was *us* from what he wrote, but as tvash said, you'd have to put your armchair time machine 24 hours in the past to blame us. Not to mention we were skiing several miles away from the site in question.

 

On Friday there were no obvious "DONT GO HERE" signs, so either they had already removed them or they weren't obvious. Now if some climbers (more likely skiers it seems?) did just blatently ignore signs that said they were going to shoot a howitzer up there, then they are idiots, but unless somebody fesses up or offers an explanation, it may well have been a mistake.

 

With all this said, if a big slide *does* come down, here is hoping it takes out some giant motorhomes towing SUVs.

[summitchaserCJB]

Heres to hoping it doesn't happen at all.

[Dane]

Obviously some missed the sarcasm.

 

105mm shells last I looked were expensive. Signage isn't. Avi control guys don't generally just roll out the big guns, bombs or avi lauchers for fun. People keep track of that stuff and it isn't usually the same guys who get to play with it. Control work is suppose to be a public safety issue on the highway or in a ski area, based on current forcasts.

 

You just don't just walk away and come back tomorrow (or in this case 3 days later!) if your forcast says you'll have big slides and you need to shoot now. You get paid to "solve" those issues with as little damage as possible.

 

You are suppose to post easily seen and understood signs, you then physically clear the area if required and then proceed to blow shit up. Anyone gives you a hard time, like ignoring signs, you address accordingly.

 

Complaining about it in the news paper and 2nd hand on the internet sounds like they are looking for a budget windfall or someone was just our playing with the toys and wanted to finish off this year's ammo allotment.

 

Simply because if it was important enough the guys would have hung around, cleared the area and did the control work. Instead they, "pack up the howitzer and drive back to Twisp".

 

Nice...on so many levels

 

 

[tvashtarkatena]

Missing from this discussion:

 

Could WSDOT's procedures (or not following procedures) have played a role?

 

 

[John Frieh]

Back when Mugs was living in SLC he would often find out where they would be bombing and then attempt to ski that area the day before or day of the bombing as it would always have "the deepest power"

 

:laf:

[tvashtarkatena]

He should have been tracked down and cited, for sure.

 

Wonder what kind of penalties WSDOT issued citations levy?

 

I'll bet they're EPIC.

Edited May 8, 2010 by tvashtarkatena

[ScaredSilly]

Read the second (currently the most recent) comment:

 

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/travel/2011810216_northcascades07.html?prmid=obnetwork

 

Sounds like the climbers were dawn patrolling before any signage was put up.

[ScaredSilly]

I received an email from WSDOT seems they were under the (mistaken) impression that the west side electronic message sign at Newhalem went into operation about the same time the one in Winthrop was parked on the shoulder by the ballpark and programmed. That was about 1 p.m. on Thursday afternoon (6 May). As a result of my email, they checked and found that the Newhalem sign was in use at another project until it was placed Friday morning (7 May), so Thursday westside visitors didn't see (or have the opportunity to ignore) a sign. They assumed it was a Westside group of climbers who were up in the spires on Friday.

 

The signs weren't the only method they used to let people know of the planned 3 hour closure the next day - By about 1 p.m. on Thursday, a statewide highway alert was issued to the media. The USFS, NPS and NOAA Radio were notified along with WSP and appropriate county officials. The NCH website was updated. The WSDOT Traffic and Roads and our Mountain Pass websites were updated. 5-1-1 and the roadside Highway Advisory Radios (HARs) at Twisp and Pateros were updated. They also send out the e-mail to those of you who are signed up to receive the personalized North Cascades updates (almost 3,000).