OR show - neat shit thread

[crackers]

The new petzl tools are for the fall. They've actually been in the pipeline for a long time, and the samples at the show were production. Here come some pictures of the Petzl stuff, which includes a really rad biner...

 

 

First off, the Ergo.

 

Now, the Quark...

 

and then the Nomic...

 

Here's the detail on the bottom of the tools...there IS another hole under the pinky rest.

 

 

Wire gate. One wire. Keylock. Pretty neat. August(?).

[crackers]

Of course, no discussion of "neat shit" at the OR show would be complete without a discussion of NWD CiloGear WorkSacks...

 

 

From the left on top, there is a standard 40B worksack in blue grey, and then a red 20L NWD, a red 30L NWD, a Red 45L NWD, a standard 30L in Green and then the HUGE 760gram 75L NWD in Red.

 

On the bottom, it's all 'normal' worksacks, with a new bumblebee Yellow/Black 75L pack.

[davidk]

cilogear = ...

[davidk]

I predict a buyer's market for old Quarks come fall...

[LostCamKenny]

OR Show = really cool shit = really inflated prices for really cool shit i can't afford - or need = corporations that don't give a rats ass if you actually live or die just as long as you live or die with their gear!

[crackers]

OR Show = really cool shit = really inflated prices for really cool shit i can't afford - or need = corporations that don't give a rats ass if you actually live or die just as long as you live or die with their gear!

 

I can tell from the above who was actually at the show! hahahahha! i hate the show. buybuybuy!!!!

[LostCamKenny]

OR Show = really cool shit = really inflated prices for really cool shit i can't afford - or need = corporations that don't give a rats ass if you actually live or die just as long as you live or die with their gear!

 

I can tell from the above who was actually at the show! hahahahha! i hate the show. buybuybuy!!!!

 

[Dane]

The new petzl tools are for the fall. They've actually been in the pipeline for a long time, and the samples at the show were production.

 

I'd like to clarify if I may? The newest Petzl tools will be available early Fall. Tools shown at OR were close but not production (there were no production tools being shown) and the newest tools haven't been around long...according to Peter Popall of Petzl and the guys out with Ueli Steck last week.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[jmace]

Your name dropping drivel is over the top

[Dane]

Your name dropping drivel is over the top

 

Not like I dream this shit up. I asked those involved and repeated the info here. Why am I not surprised someone would get offended.

[LostCamKenny]

Your name dropping drivel is over the top

it seems better than under the bottom.

[nhluhr]

Wire gate. One wire. Keylock. Pretty neat. August(?).

The nice thing about traditional wire-gates is that the gate itself is the spring... nothing to fail except the main structure of the carabiner itself. With this, I'm pretty sure they need a coil or leaf spring to make it work so I don't see the benefit over a normal gated biner. What did their marketing materials claim with respect to this piece?

[olyclimber]

Thanks for the pics Graham!

[John Frieh]

Where are the pics of the wallcreeper Graham?

[dberdinka]

I imagine it's not really public information Graham but I'm curious what the annual market size is for NWD packs. 10? 100? 10,000?

 

Maybe I'm just poor but I can't imagine ever having the dough for one of those.

[crackers]

I imagine it's not really public information Graham but I'm curious what the annual market size is for NWD packs. 10? 100? 10,000?

 

Forgive the brevity of my response, I am doing post show follow up...

 

I doubt the world wide market for real alpine packs is in excess of 10,000 total. We are on track to sell well over 100 NWD packs this year. At our size of operation, with our customer base, it's a worthwhile side line. If I didn't have the Steve House / AMGA Board / Jed Brown & Jared Vilhauer kind of customers already, it wouldn't be worth it.

 

Here's the thing: they weigh less than any 210d Dyneema / Cordura ripstop (whether you make up some bullsh!t about 'spectra/carbon diamond weave' or you're honest about the material), the tear strength is out of the world, the abrasion resistance is much better than any 210d Cordura based fabric, and you can easily patch the material. For all of those reasons, and a few more, they are the best packs for folks doing multiple expeditions in a year, guiding serious stuff (cassin) or dirtbags who are out every day and usually measure their packs' lifetimes in partial seasons.

 

More likely than not, the NWD packs will be the gold reference for "rubber butt" and Seam Grip mastery in a few years.

[crackers]

Where are the pics of the wallcreeper Graham?

 

Well, after the show...and just because you asked!

 

I got branded after we finished up with our meetings...The wallcreeper is underneath me.

 

 

I was still finding stickers on me two days later...

Edited January 28, 2010 by crackers

[crackers]

hey nhluhr,

 

Absolutely no idea what the story is with the biners other than they looked really really cool, had CE stamps and felt great in my hand.

 

The US sport division manager and then the chef de groupe gave me the 20,000 foot run through their new stuff before the show. Our conversation was about five minutes long, and other than discussing the protocols for testing ice tools, we didn't talk details about any of it. Unfortunately, we were there for work, not play.

 

I suspect that if you look around their websites, you could probably find decent amounts of info on all the new stuff.

[wdietsch]

any update from DMM on the release on the new Dragon cams? ... two weeks ago MEC-Vancouver was telling me "March?"

[murraysovereign]

Wire gate. One wire. Keylock. Pretty neat. August(?).

The nice thing about traditional wire-gates is that the gate itself is the spring... nothing to fail except the main structure of the carabiner itself. With this, I'm pretty sure they need a coil or leaf spring to make it work so I don't see the benefit over a normal gated biner. What did their marketing materials claim with respect to this piece?

 

Wire gates have a shorter lifespan because each time you open the gate you're stressing it in such a way that, over time, weakens the spring effect until it loses much of its strength - how many times can you bend a paperclip back and forth before it stops being useful as a paperclip? At least, that's the rationale I got from the Petzl rep when I asked about it. The other advantages of wire gates (lighter weight, larger gate opening than the same size biner with solid gate, and reduced gate flutter under stress due to lower mass) are retained in this design, but with longer useful gate life due to a "conventional" spring mechanism.

 

I'll step back now and let the metallurgists and structural engineers tear the s#*t out of everything I just said. But for the record, at first glance I prefer the wire-gate design we're all accustomed to. It's intuitive and elegantly simple - the "Ocham's Razor" committee would approve. That's not to say there's anything wrong with this newfangled thing, I'm just not convinced it's solving a problem that really needed solving.

[Lodestone]

All carabiners have a part that flexes, I don't see a wiregate carabiner having any durability disadvantage. I have some Hotwire carabiners from the first year of that model's production. They still are snappy.

 

I agree about the Ocham's razor comment; this new carabiner seems to be solving a problem that didn't exist.

 

 

Chad

 

 

 

Wire gates have a shorter lifespan because each time you open the gate you're stressing it in such a way that, over time, weakens the spring effect until it loses much of its strength - how many times can you bend a paperclip back and forth before it stops being useful as a paperclip? At least, that's the rationale I got from the Petzl rep when I asked about it. The other advantages of wire gates (lighter weight, larger gate opening than the same size biner with solid gate, and reduced gate flutter under stress due to lower mass) are retained in this design, but with longer useful gate life due to a "conventional" spring mechanism.

 

I'll step back now and let the metallurgists and structural engineers tear the s#*t out of everything I just said. But for the record, at first glance I prefer the wire-gate design we're all accustomed to. It's intuitive and elegantly simple - the "Ocham's Razor" committee would approve. That's not to say there's anything wrong with this newfangled thing, I'm just not convinced it's solving a problem that really needed solving.

[Dane]

Interesting to count the parts in a typical wire gate and the number of parts in the new Petzl, single wire, "ANGEL". 6 (more or less?) verses 2. In an engineering sense I don't think that is any great achievement.

 

Anyone notice the problem clipping back into the hangers on the display wall.

 

I found the durability claim pretty far fetched as my solid gate biners go back decades as do some of my wire gates now. The wire gates of any vintage seem to have the strongest gate action. But suspect some of that is the fact they had the strongest gate action to start with as well. Anyway from my view durability doesn't seem to be an issue on the much simplier design of the typical, 2 part, wire gate biner.

 

Or did I miss something recently?

 

I like Petzl's slick nose profile and the gate lock as well but seems like a lot of trade offs from a manufacturing/price point standpoint. Just don't see the question these were suppose to answer.

 

Most chilling to me was the suggested retail price which was on the + side of $10.

 

 

 

 

 

[matt_warfield]

Your name dropping drivel is over the top

 

I'm with Dane on this one. Better to ask people who know their shit rather than the alternative.

[powderhound]

any update from DMM on the release on the new Dragon cams? ... two weeks ago MEC-Vancouver was telling me "March?"

pics?

[TrogdortheBurninator]

Edited January 29, 2010 by TrogdortheBurninator