bstach Posted December 24, 2009 Share Posted December 24, 2009 (edited) In any discussion about legalizing pot, the argument often comes up that "pot is less harmful" than alcohol or tobacco. Is there any imperical evidence or this is just something some pothead pulled out of his ass? Post up dem links... Edited December 25, 2009 by bstach Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvashtarkatena Posted December 24, 2009 Share Posted December 24, 2009 No one here has argued that as far as I can tell. Neither are good for you (the red wine thing is bunk...dark grape juice has the same beneficial effect). Pot certainly hurts less the next morning. Most would agree that its probably less dangerous to drive stoned than drunk, although neither is recommended by the State Patrol. The physiology of the user is everything. For those genetically predisposed to alcohol addiction, even a small amount of that drug can be a very, very bad thing. Pot is not as statistically or chemically addictive, but a person can become psychologically addicted to just about anything. Not spraying, of course. Oh no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivan Posted December 24, 2009 Share Posted December 24, 2009 i was one typical evening away from getting my cash checked 'fore i started smoking, which led to a bunch of years not drinking at all, which allowed me the abilty to drink in a non-retarded fashion afterwards - anecedotal of course, but i havne't heard of any examples to the contrary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LostCamKenny Posted December 24, 2009 Share Posted December 24, 2009 i was one typical evening away from getting my cash checked 'fore i started smoking, which led to a bunch of years not drinking at all, which allowed me the abilty to drink in a non-retarded fashion afterwards - anecedotal of course, but i havne't heard of any examples to the contrary aww, fuck man, are you drunk again? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivan Posted December 24, 2009 Share Posted December 24, 2009 i was one typical evening away from getting my cash checked 'fore i started smoking, which led to a bunch of years not drinking at all, which allowed me the abilty to drink in a non-retarded fashion afterwards - anecedotal of course, but i havne't heard of any examples to the contrary aww, fuck man, are you drunk again? well, i have been hanging out w/ my inlaws w/n piss'n distance of xmas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stonehead Posted December 24, 2009 Share Posted December 24, 2009 In any discussion about legalizing pot, the argument often comes up that "pot is better for you" than alcohol or tobacco. Is there any imperical evidence or this is just something some pothead pulled out of his ass? Post up dem links... There are two issues. One is reclassifying marijuana from Schedule 1 of the Controlled Substances Act. The other is the general legalization of marijuana. Your question is a subjective one that is usually answered by personal anecdotal examples. As far as studies, I don't believe the question can be answered conclusively on the basis of comparison sufficient to qualitatively separate this particular illegal drug vs the legal drugs. If you rephrased the question as "is pot as bad as" then you might be able to qualify marijuana as the lesser of the evils when viewed through the lens of perspective. The fact that the public and parts of the medical profession have addressed this as a perceptual issue in a number of states through the initiative process lends support to the rescheduling of marijuana for regulatory purposes in drug policy. The major stumbling block remains the potential for abuse. The general push to legalization appears to be driven by the monetary effect. The arguments I've heard regarding legalization center around reducing the profit motive and the consequent effect that may have on reducing violence. A change to legal status will also have an effect on incarcerations. Those two effects could add to cost savings in law enforcement and administration. Another tact being taken regards regulation and taxation of marijuana for revenue purposes. Additionally, an often unacknowledged effect is the public perception of the War on Drugs as a war against the people with such things as no-knock warrants, asset forfeiture laws, and other legal weapons that appear to erode our constitutional protections and the tradition of due process. Politicians such as Governor Schwarzenegger and Seattle Mayor McGinn have called for legalization but unless Congress or the Executive Branch gets into the act, marijuana will probably remain an illegal drug for quite a few more years but with low emphasis placed on enforcement (of the low hanging fruit) of individual users. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete_H Posted December 24, 2009 Share Posted December 24, 2009 Alcohol rots your internal organs, most namely your liver stomach and esophogus. You can die from acute and chronic alcohol poisoning and is involved in the vast majority of ER trauma admittals (and directly or indirectly for a lot of medical ER admittals as well) and probably near 90 per cent of fatal or near-fatal vehicle accidents. Smoking anything isn't good for you especially for your respiratory system, but I think it would be pretty hard to achieve a physiological toxic level of THC in your system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-spotter Posted December 24, 2009 Share Posted December 24, 2009 the level of carcinogens in thc smoke is way higher than in wine... and is higher than in cigarettes. marijuana should be smoked with a vaporizer or eaten in brownies imho. red wine has healthful benefits, although dealcoholized wine would be better than the good stuff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crack Posted December 24, 2009 Share Posted December 24, 2009 "I think it would be pretty hard to achieve a physiological toxic level of THC in your system" Those stoner folk sure do seem to try hard at it though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete_H Posted December 24, 2009 Share Posted December 24, 2009 In three years as a firefighter / EMT I have probably been on two medical calls where the patient's chief complaint is related to MJ, and both times it was a 15 y/o kid who smoked for the first time and had anxiety. On the other hand, I'd say roughly b/w 60% - 75% of medical responses are directly or indirectly related to alcohol. I don't smoke pot and I'm not advocating its use, but I do think its pretty clear that as far as its effects on public health and welfare, alcohol is much worse than pot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaskadskyjKozak Posted December 24, 2009 Share Posted December 24, 2009 Alcohol rots your internal organs, most namely your liver stomach and esophogus. yeah, but it tastes good Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaskadskyjKozak Posted December 24, 2009 Share Posted December 24, 2009 In three years as a firefighter / EMT I have probably been on two medical calls where the patient's chief complaint is related to MJ, and both times it was a 15 y/o kid who smoked for the first time and had anxiety. On the other hand, I'd say roughly b/w 60% - 75% of medical responses are directly or indirectly related to alcohol. I don't smoke pot and I'm not advocating its use, but I do think its pretty clear that as far as its effects on public health and welfare, alcohol is much worse than pot. the powers that be probably would make alcohol illegal if they could - they tried it once and it failed. the dumbasses can't see that having MJ illegal has failed. they are just too stubborn to give up this charade Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-spotter Posted December 24, 2009 Share Posted December 24, 2009 overuse of alcohol is bad, but so is overuse of salt... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaskadskyjKozak Posted December 24, 2009 Share Posted December 24, 2009 overuse of alcohol is bad, but so is overuse of salt... overuse of food is bad. we've got a bigger problem with that in the US than overuse of MJ (or, C2H50H for that matter) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvashtarkatena Posted December 24, 2009 Share Posted December 24, 2009 In three years as a firefighter / EMT I have probably been on two medical calls where the patient's chief complaint is related to MJ, and both times it was a 15 y/o kid who smoked for the first time and had anxiety. On the other hand, I'd say roughly b/w 60% - 75% of medical responses are directly or indirectly related to alcohol. I don't smoke pot and I'm not advocating its use, but I do think its pretty clear that as far as its effects on public health and welfare, alcohol is much worse than pot. the powers that be probably would make alcohol illegal if they could - they tried it once and it failed. the dumbasses can't see that having MJ illegal has failed. they are just too stubborn to give up this charade There's been no legislative effort to criminalize alcohol since prohibition ended. None. On the flip side, prohibition never ended in a large number of counties and parishes in the eastern and central states, but that area has shrunk, not expanded. Regarding pot, its a public information issue. The ACLU has mounted a multi year effort to reclassify MJ as a misdemeanor in WA. We're actually getting pretty close to doing just that; attitudes have changed dramatically over the past few years, and there's a good chance legislation might pass as early as 2010. We've learned that about a 3rd of the public thinks it should be fully legal, a 3rd thinks it should never be legal, and 3rd believes that the war on drugs has failed but they don't know what to do about it. We go after that last 3rd with our PI campaign. The primary issue that resonates with voters is civil rights, not money, as previously stated. 80,000 Americans are arrested for MJ only offenses every year. Many of these have their lives destroyed by that event; loss of employment, housing, education, benefits, in addition to a dangerous exposure to our horrific prison system which requires no introduction (rape camp, anyone? Can I interest you in white supremacist gang membership?). Half of our national prison population, over a million people, are in for drug offenses involving no other crime. Thanks to the war on drugs, our Land of Freedom boasts, by far, the highest incarceration rate in the world. Higher than North Korea, higher than China, higher than Iran. Furthermore, the War on Drugs is primarily against pot users; they are the lower hanging fruit and present the lesser physical threat to law enforcement. The public doesn't realize this, instead assuming that the kind of tolerance we see here in Seattle is representative of the country as a whole, and that the war on drugs focuses on the hard stuff. It doesn't. Finally, pot laws hit black communities hardest, in unbalanced ways for which there is an enormous amount of supporting literature...no room to expound on it here. It's an equal protection issue. The issue that runs second to civil rights in terms of public perception is one of cost. In these times of massive deficit, it's not hard to convince voters and legislators that more prisons shouldn't be our top priority. We've had amazing success in gaining support for MJ reclassification with audiences we've been able to reach with our campaign, which indicates that more people need to have a serious conversation about pot, and more generally, drug policies if we are to move forward as a society on this issue. Regarding health effects, our campaign doesn't go down that rat hole. We assume that pot is probably not good for you, just as tobacco and alcohol are probably not good for you, and leave it for the public to decide what their individual habits are going to be. Having said that, there have been no credible studies to date that indicate any life threatening long term effects of MJ use other than those to the respiratory system from the act of smoking itself if that is the chosen method of ingestion. Sure, it makes the occasional crazed Mexican want to rape white women, but still. Contrast that with alcohol abuse, which often leads to fatal esophageal rupture, destruction of the brain and liver, or death from trauma or exposure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvashtarkatena Posted December 24, 2009 Share Posted December 24, 2009 (edited) For more information about the ACLU's efforts to reclassify MJ in WA: Marijuana public information campaign Edited December 24, 2009 by tvashtarkatena Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete_H Posted December 24, 2009 Share Posted December 24, 2009 overuse of alcohol is bad, but so is overuse of salt... Unfortunately, I like both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvashtarkatena Posted December 24, 2009 Share Posted December 24, 2009 Mutually reinforcing abuse vehicles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete_H Posted December 24, 2009 Share Posted December 24, 2009 Hence free salty nuts at the bar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete_H Posted December 24, 2009 Share Posted December 24, 2009 I don't think I put that quite right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvashtarkatena Posted December 24, 2009 Share Posted December 24, 2009 freed salty nuts on the bar? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chirp Posted December 24, 2009 Share Posted December 24, 2009 Anything in moderation is OK...cept maybe Meth and Lice. My old trigger point instructor used the quote, "The solution to pollution is dilution". The body is an amazing, self righting machine, look at Hunter S. Thompson...his body was amazingly durable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bstach Posted December 25, 2009 Author Share Posted December 25, 2009 In any discussion about legalizing pot, the argument often comes up that "pot is better for you" than alcohol or tobacco. Is there any imperical evidence or this is just something some pothead pulled out of his ass? Post up dem links... If you rephrased the question as "is pot as bad as" then you might be able to qualify marijuana as the lesser of the evils when viewed through the lens of perspective. That is what I intended...I have updated my original post Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billcoe Posted January 5, 2010 Share Posted January 5, 2010 A Swedish study indicates that heavy pot use increases your chance of Schizophrenia. I worked in the VA hospital for 4 years, I believe that to be true. It hasn't be ascertained if being a schiz increases your chance of being a pot smoker, there may not be a cause and effect there. I don't have the study but here's a link. http://www.cannabisnews.com/news/13/thread13350.shtml "A report released by the National Institutes of Health stated that: "Marijuana increases schizophrenia by a factor of four to six, disorients the user, causes psychotic reaction, panic, anxiety, hallucinations, reproductive cellular disruption and cancer." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olyclimber Posted January 5, 2010 Share Posted January 5, 2010 abuse of any substance can do damage. take paint chips for instance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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