Washington Climbers

[Rad]

Wow, I think I agree with every word from Pope. Well said.

[Dannible]

I hear lots of reasons for low numbers of people in the alpine, but none of the arguments address why this supposed shift away from alpine climbing is happening now as opposed to ten or more years ago.

 

 

Is there a shift away from alpine climbing? I have not been climbing long enough to say. It's not blowing up as fast as sport climbing and bouldering, but I can't imagine that our numbers are really dropping, and if they are I'd blame the price of gas.

[tvashtarkatena]

What Pope said, for sure. The Cascades are for us, and we're for them.

Edited September 30, 2008 by tvashtarkatena

[G-spotter]

The best climber in Washington is in Spain?

[mattp]

I agree with Pope too. Can we all just get along now? Several here took offense when I posted that the Cascades are what they are and one thing they are not is really big stuff on the world stage, but that is OK by me 'cause they hold plenty of adventure and are certainly as beautiful as any range I've ever visited. Unless we are in some kind of competition with the Alaska Range for who gets written up more its mostly a blessing that permits are easier to get. We are and will likely continue to see reductions in roads and trails, though.

[kevbone]

who cares?

 

 

Exactly

[Off_White]

One thing for sure though, is I see a decrease, or maybe a better word is a lack of emerging young alpine climbers in WA.

 

I don't know that I agree about a decrease in total numbers of alpine climbers. I made five trips to Mt Stuart (Sherpa Couloir, Ice Cliff Glacier, Stuart Glacier Couloir, and complete N Ridge twice) between 1979 and 1989, and I never saw another party of climbers. I just did the West Ridge a few weeks ago and encountered two other parties of two on that route, that's a big increase. Up until 1999 I never shared an alpine route with another party and only occasionally encountered other climbers in the backcountry, and that only at nexus points like Colchuck Lake or Boston Basin.

 

For the West Ridge I drew on route finding information from Beckey's 2nd brown edition and a number of trip reports here, resulting in a very casual first trip up a feature that many experience as confusing. There is a lot more information available now, both about the routes in particular and what people are climbing.

 

There might be a lack of emerging young alpine climbers, I don't really have any anecdotal insights into that idea. I suspect that about the same number of people are taking it up as they ever did, but in terms of percentage of total young climbers who shift into alpine climbing, I could easily imagine that going down. I have nothing empirical to support my opinion though.

 

It's worth pointing out to people that you can in fact climb just fine with a rack of hexes, stoppers, and shoulder length slings that you tie yourself. Most alpine routes do not demand a double set of cams.

[sklag]

Just for the record I live in Ohio. It sucks and I heart Washington. I am insanely jealous of alpine climbers right now because the highest "mountain" in columbus is the f-king resevoir dam. I just wish I could climb where you guys climb all the time.

[mike1]

who cares?

 

 

Exactly

what he said.

[wayne]

Werd Sklag. We are a fussy bunch that does have it too good.

 

Props again to the people that do trs!

 

I find there are LOTS of people that care!!

 

Edited October 1, 2008 by wayne1112

[nkane]

Just for the record I live in Ohio. It sucks and I heart Washington. I am insanely jealous of alpine climbers right now because the highest "mountain" in columbus is the f-king resevoir dam. I just wish I could climb where you guys climb all the time.

 

Oh man I so agree. I just moved back East and I am so sad to leave all the great climbing in the PNW. You guys don't know how good you have it. I mean, the Gunks are fine, but between the climbing, volcanoes, skiing and the vast undeveloped mountain ranges out there, there should be enough to keep anyone happy for several lifetimes.

[tvashtarkatena]

I was just down in the Sierras, and, don't get me wrong, the Sierras are great, but they are very barren and monochromatic. I found myself missing those deep green glacier carved valleys that you never, ever want to drop into. After almost 3 decades, the Cascades still delight and surprise me every time I go out.

Edited October 1, 2008 by tvashtarkatena

[rbw1966]

I just did the West Ridge a few weeks ago and encountered two other parties of two on that route, that's a big increase.

 

As a contrast, I climbed the same route about 2 weeks ago and we didn't see another person on the route. We ran into two solo backpackers around Ingalls and I know there was someone on Stuart the same time we were because I saw the footprints in the snow. I've been on Stuart 4 times and that was, by far, the least amount of people I have ever seen.

 

If you ever think there are fewer people alpine climbing I invite you to take a look at the south side of Hood some early summer Saturday morning. Of course, thats not exactly representative of the status of climbing by any means.

[AlpineMonkey]

I don't think not seeing anybody in the mountains is a good jude on usage. Its a big place out there and there are so many routes and things to do.

[tomtom]

There have always been some people who choose not to publish their climbs,and for a variety of reasons. Some people are shy; others may be secretive for competitive reasons or because they may think that publication can only bring impact to an area. Personal attacks over style or sandbagging or whatever can drive people underground.

 

And some folks hate to see their name misspelled in print for their efforts.

 

[mike1]

I’m no pollster, but I have to say that forums like this represent a very small fraction of the climbers that are out there. The number of climbers seen by any given climber from this forum can’t really be considered. Of all the climbers I know, I am the only one that is a member of this site and I don’t post TR’s. Second to climbing registers I don’t see how you could track our numbers. Furthermore, I don’t really see why it matters. I mean second to placing bolts we have the least impact on the environment than most other outdoor enthusiasts. Personally, I enjoy climbing most when I don’t see anyone else. The North Cascades are like an unknown jewel and the least amount of people that know about it the better. Hey, no one ever said I played well with others...

[Off_White]

I don’t post TR’s.

 

I trust you reciprocate and don't read TR's and use their beta either, or do you just use what the site offers without contributing? If this forum represents so few climbers, surely telling stories from your outings will have little impact on your privacy in the Cascades. I think you should post some trip reports, people who use the site consistently declare TR's the best thing we do, and you could help make this a better website.

 

My subjective experience is entirely valid, for me at least. I climb less in the mountains than I used to and I see many more climbers. It hasn't been a problem, and I certainly know where to go in the range if I want to see fewer people, but that has been my personal observation and my membership at this website is irrelevant. Maybe backcountry climbing usage has declined in the last five years, but I believe it's still way up in the last thirty. Your experiences may not be congruent with mine, and both perspectives will be subjectively true.

 

On a different tangent, I think climbers ought to use those silly registers, otherwise we're much less visible as a user group and our desires are not considered. I think the discussion of closure of the Middle Fork road had very little input from climbers, but lots from hikers, mountain bikers and horseback riders. If you don't stand up to be counted, then you don't count, and you can't complain about being disregarded.

 

 

[tvashtarkatena]

I've observed that the number of backcountry travelers out there has increased, or at least not diminished, certainly in the more well known areas. Web beta, more guidebooks and lists, larger population, gyms, whatever, but there seem to be more people of evidence of people (slings, burned in climbers trails, etc) than there used to be. It's not an explosion of people by any means, but there certainly out there. With better weather and conditions beta, multiple parties are showing up when conditions come in, rather than just one. Perhaps better information has just resulted in better timing; everyone shows up at once, rather than more overall folks. Having said that, it's still very easy to find complete solitude.

Edited October 2, 2008 by tvashtarkatena

[glassgowkiss]

wtf? Matt is right on target, just look at me.... went from land of 5.13, nose in a day, alpine and ice, to desk jockey, struggling on 10+. but i have 1800 posts on this site...

[tvashtarkatena]

It took you whole day?

[TrogdortheBurninator]

when it has come up, a large percentage of climbers i've met in the backcountry either read or participate on CC.com, similar with winter climbing (ice/alpine). rock cragging, far less so.

[tomtom]

just look at me.... 5.13, nose in a day, alpine and ice ...

 

[Sol]

wtf? Matt is right on target, just look at me.... went from land of 5.13, nose in a day, alpine and ice, to desk jockey, struggling on 10+. but i have 1800 posts on this site...

 

that's cuz you moved to bellingham.

[mattp]

Just to clarify: what I wrote was that the Internet and select climbs guidebooks influence climbers' choice of routes so that certain areas or routes receive more attention than they used to while others less.

 

Think North Face of Mt. Hood, for example: a couple of enthusiastic trip reports on this website probably quadrupled the traffic on that particular route. Or Big Four: few climbers were interested in it until Dan and I climbed Spindrift Couloir and Dan wrote it up here. When somebody establishes a new rock route and puts a nice write-up and topo on the Web, it can immediately become popular. In the past this happened only through printed publication as when, in 1994 Rock and Ice published a "mini guide" to Exit 38 and it became crowded overnight.

[Bug]

When I go out, I see about the same number of people as always if not a little more.

Most of the climbers I meet do NOT post on CC.COM (maybe 60%) and many of them have never heard of it.

But I am definately square in that group of climbers who have slacked off in recent years. But in my case, it is not because of the internet but due to other outdoor activities with kids.