human powered approaches vs heli, planes, skidoos

[dirtbagathlete]

I respectfully ask for a bit of forgiveness; because I'm going to stir up a bit of trouble with my 1st post.

 

The psyche of this community is incredible to me. The volume of trip reports, and the number of local climbers operating at a high level astounds me.

 

In my opinion, there is a demon lurking among alpine climbers and ski mountaineers. It has always surprised me how many trip reports from: alpine journals, magazines, and this site mention that they (the alpinists) used helicopter access or a plane etc. In a time when I observe the Earth being hammered in many ways - climate change in particular - does it not seem strange that the people who love Ice and Snow the most, would use a machine as consumptive and polluting as an aircraft for their own wants and needs?

 

Personally, I look up to the people who cram their friends into a subaru or whatever and make things happen on a shoestring budget. I know that many will justify themselves by saying they "only have so much time off work", or this or that. What I ask though is: "are you really that important?" If you think you are; you have learned nothing from the Mountains. Enduring a sick approach is similar to weight training or endurance training; the difficulty is what cleanses and develops a persons' thinking mind; and their awareness of the true reality that they exist in.

 

I remain optimistic that humans will figure it out; because I really would be sad if I couldn't enjoy the mysterious, awesome spectacle of an Ice climb throughout my life. But who cares about me, what about all of the generations to come? We are all just specks of dust in the Universe. Don't f*&% up the Earth.

[Spencer]

HUH........

You can have my SUV when you pry it from my cold dead hands.

and if it wasn't "for us"(climber, hikers etc.) my new friend, the environment wouldnt exist as we know it,so that you could look at it and think we all should ride a horse to the trial head. Thank you for your concern (although misguided)

[ivan]

umm - isn't it like, hard or something, to get to pakistan, nepal and patagonia (the kinda tr's you usually see in said magazines) from the usa via a subaru?

[genepires]

the CO put out by the vehicles used for recreation is trivial compared to the amount used by our nation during the daily commute. So we should all stay at home, except when we climb.

[G-spotter]

where's the power to post this screed coming from? a human powered computer?

 

or maybe a hamster wheel powered computer?

[111]

to enjoy the climb, there has to be suffering to put the enjoyment in perspective. not pain and gore suffering, but a nice big gobi, or sore hips from the heavy pack you carried. Hiking to middle of nowhere might not be entirely practical, but yes, having to grovel your way in on the approach is necessary in my mind. Look at the first ascents for all the major peaks around here. They were done after a multiple day approach by the hardmen of old who didnt whine about bolt spacing or anything like that. There is no glory in driving or flying an approach that was hiked by most others. I am off on a tangent, but yea, flying in to 15,000 ft for a 18,000 ft summit is poop on a stick.

[AlpineK]

I'm planning a week long ski traverse using a helicopter this next spring so fuck you very much.

 

If anything I figure minimizing your regular use of a vehicle does a lot more to reduce your impact on the environment than cutting out 10 or 20 climbing/skiing trips a year. In fact burning fuel for those uses will increase your understanding of all the great things in nature and deserve to be protected.

[dirtbagathlete]

Spencer, there are a few ways to perceive what you wrote. If you are implying that the environment only exists because people like you take pictures for others (like myself) to look at; you might want to be aware that who you're talking to may have spent 21 years roaming the backcountry around vancouver, mostly solo. That same person may also have many meaningful ski traverses under their belt throughout southwestern B.C. Where do you think I acquired my love of Ice & Snow, and my respect for the Earth?

 

ivan, I apologize that I didn't write more clearly. "Approach" to a climber, usually means: from where they leave a roadside to the start of the business. You are totally correct that flying to another continent is unavoidable. That is unless you are someone like Jia Condon, who has used commercial freighters to access the Greenland area.

 

genepires, yes you are right about the insanity of the daily commute. Neither of us has any control over that. But why not give a sh%$ and help out somewhere else; where we do have control.

 

G-spotter, I'm not sure if I should take that as a joke-but I'll bite. I know damn well that electricity comes from coal, or something else being combusted,in many parts of the world. But the connection between the use of electricity in the western world - and climbers, with money to burn, using a heli to access a north american climbing area - is a bit of a stretch isn't it?

[Mark_Husbands]

where do you get the idea that folks who are posting on this web site are doing anything other than driving to trailheads and walking in to climbs? it is probably a rare, big trip to go to Alaska or somehwere like that where air support is even possible, much less necessary. a few people might use a snow machine to get to some ice climbing at the end of a snowed up road that you would otherwise drive in the summer. big deal. the reason tha alpine journals have a lot of trips with air support is because those climbs are happening in remote spots. everybody else is having fun in their backyard mountains.

[G-spotter]

there ain't no difference between flying to a climb and driving to a climb so unless you ride your bike to every crag and trailhead, like the Self-Propelled Outdoor Club do, you might as well shut the fuck up.

[cj001f]

dude, they got you on the corner wearing pleather and see-through dirtbagathlete.

 

Now go back to drinking pee and jerking off monkeys

[ClimbingPanther]

Since CO2 is, this very minute, pouring out of your mouth, dirtbagathlete, I suggest you save our future by cutting down on your emissions. skull

[justplanecrazy]

Hahahaa... wow what a bunch of ignorant asses on this website. I happen to be a pilot myself and was thinking about posting the same topic. For a majority of treehuggers that condemn SUV's, there sure are a large number of us that use heli's regularly.

 

there ain't no difference between flying to a climb and driving to a climb so unless you ride your bike to every crag and trailhead, like the Self-Propelled Outdoor Club do, you might as well shut the fuck up.

 

Wow, such words of ignorant wisdom spoken like a true ass. A B212 burns around 400 liters per hour and a AStar 350 around 200 liters per hour. My car burns 7. When you take you're little 1 hour hop into the backcountry in a B212, you just burned the equivalent of 4 months gas in your car!!! But I guess that's the same as driving your car there... if you're retarded. Just imagine how much fuel is burned in a day of heli skiing.

 

I saw a trip report of a group looking down on the guides flying to the top of the dome on Robson after they flew to Berg lake. I had a good laugh at that seeing as there's no difference really. Using a chopper to access areas that are easily accessible by trail, or to bypass the difficulties on a climb such as Robson's mouse trap, is a joke. Suck it up sweethearts and sweat a little on the approach, not just the climb. If you can't navigate the mousetrap, then maybe you should stick to climbing things like ski hills.

 

 

[dirtbagathlete]

Good to see how scrappy the cascade crew is. Yes, actually I am a freak who used a road bike and the bus to access climbs for a few years. Thanks for the "heads up" about the club.

 

I would never think it was reasonable for others to live the way that I do. The point that I was trying to make: was that maybe the time has come to mellow out a bit on things that are excessive. For example, up here throughout the: whistler, pemberton, and duffey areas heli's and snowmobiles are commonly used for access. Most of these areas can be reached with a bit more food, stove fuel, motivation, and time. This is what I am saying: if a person can do something without blowing off all the exhaust that a heli or snowmobile does; then why not do it? The result is that you're going to be fitter and more satisfied after.

 

All humans have to burn some amount of fuel; the key is to hopefully restrain things a bit so that Earth doesn't end up like Mars. Thanks for the scrap; I'll shut the f&*^ up now.

[justplanecrazy]

Dirtbag, don't mind the assholes on here. There are a few ignorant, arrogant, stupid, f*ckn*t pricks on here and apparently it's contagious and spreading rapidly.

 

I agree with you, especially for those remote climbs where the only real difficulty is the approach. I love it when some rich bastard flys in and starts down playing the climb and critisizing the guys that sweated it in and said it was a tough ascent.

 

I don't have a real problem with snowmobiles being used for an approach as the amount of fuel they burn is unnoticable.

 

I do have an issue with helicopters being used, especially on Robson. I don't know why guides feel it is an acceptable practice to run richy riches up and down from the Dome. You just bipassed the only real difficulties of the climb, so why not go climb the Presidents or Mt. Baker, if you are unable to do the full climb. It's kinda like getting choppered to the meadows on Devil's Tower cause the climb to the meadows is too difficult and you want to say you climbed it. Not only did they just cheat the climb, they also burned about two hours worth of fuel to get the chopper from Jasper and back using about 6 months worth of fuel for the average car on one trip. 6 months fuel and it's only a 1-2 day approach on foot. If it's going to take a week to get to the base of the climb, then a heli's understandable. But seriously on Robson, what the hell's the point???? Learn how to walk/climb or choose an easier mountain next to a road.

 

Oh and seeing how everyone is saying it, F*ck You!!!

[EWolfe]

How about the water taxi at Ross? You want we should walk around?

 

 

TeabagAthlete said:

 

The point that I was trying to make: was that maybe the time has come to mellow out a bit on things that are excessive

 

Wow, Man. That is like, so RADICAL!!! I have to sleep on that - you know, let the profundity seep in.

 

G'nite

 

 

 

 

 

[David Trippett]

it's better to use a chopper.

 

I use choppers and have no problem with it....as long as I'm not paying....3000$ an hour for that 212 we used in the Adamants?! Fuck that!...every chopper ride I've taken has been on someone elses coin.

 

...but, I always thought all half-decent dirt baggers got free shit like trips to Nepal and chopper rides to rad alpine areas....seems so normal to me

 

As for the this "save the earth" mumbo jumbo.... the earth has done quite well taking care of herself for well on 4.5 billion years without our help and will continue to do so until burned to a cinder by the sun in another 4.5 billion or so.......as far as I'm concerned the faster that all that oil is used up the quicker we can find some real energy solutions.

 

The rampant oil consumers are the unsung enviro-vanguard....The real problem is all these fucking self powered blowhards trying to slow down oil consumption. Why not help get rid of that shit dude! Man, if you're a real environmentalist you drive a coal powered Hummer, own one two-stroke snow toy for each day of the week, burn old tires in your wood burning stove, and cut your lawn with a chainsaw.

 

If I can figure out someway to get free chopper rides from the city to the Bluffs I'm so there, brah.

[justplanecrazy]

...the earth has done quite well taking care of herself for well on 4.5 billion years without our help and will continue to do so until burned to a cinder by the sun in another 4.5 billion or so

 

I guess you don't climb much alpine ice. Snowladder is no longer climbeable as an ice climb except in early and late season, Athabasca N Face is quickly dissapearing, The Lyells have become a difficult choss pile rather than an easy ice ridge and Robson is changing quickly. Whistler is nearing an end and the glaciers have receded so quickly in Europe that they are predicting they'll have completely vanish this century.

 

I'm a bit of a critic when it comes to us being the sole reason for the climate change... a little thing called the ice age ending before cars, seems to contradict that we did this, but I also know that heli's put enormous amounts of pollutants in the air. Whether that just makes the air more polluted or if it also contributes to warming, I really don't care. Either way, I'll do the one day approach and continue to make fun of the pussy, city slickers that love to land next to a summit and claim to have climbed something.

[David Trippett]

...the earth has done quite well taking care of herself for well on 4.5 billion years without our help and will continue to do so until burned to a cinder by the sun in another 4.5 billion or so

 

I guess you don't climb much alpine ice. Snowladder is no longer climbeable as an ice climb except in early and late season, Athabasca N Face is quickly dissapearing, The Lyells have become a difficult choss pile rather than an easy ice ridge and Robson is changing quickly. Whistler is nearing an end and the glaciers have receded so quickly in Europe that they are predicting they'll have completely vanish this century.

 

I'm a bit of a critic when it comes to us being the sole reason for the climate change... a little thing called the ice age ending before cars, seems to contradict that we did this, but I also know that heli's put enormous amounts of pollutants in the air. Whether that just makes the air more polluted or if it also contributes to warming, I really don't care. Either way, I'll do the one day approach and continue to make fun of the pussy, city slickers that love to land next to a summit and claim to have climbed something.

 

I guess you buy too much enviroganda...man, that shit makes for good drama doesn't it?! To be honest, I always take a peek when I'm in the check out line too....teehee!

 

..but I digress, since I actually don't climb at all....I just post here to try and be cool and stir shit like you bro, anyhoo.... I'm way too morbidly obese to be extreme, I need a chopper cause I can't walk. Don't discriminate. Not nice.

 

I'm just sure glad there's guys out there like you to keep the dream alive, thanks.

[Drederek]

There appear to be plenty of conservative climbers here, you just have to be subtle to winkle them out I used to make fun of DHO's when I rode mtn bikes many years ago, not because of their extra fuel use but because they are pussies!

[AlpineK]

I see a lot of bullshit posted by justpanecrazy and dirtbagathlete.

 

If you want to push your agenda it would be a lot better if you would quit your yammering and post some trip reports of all the rad stuff you've done without helicopters. I've done a number of trips where we used 1 heli flight to save two days of approach. I've even road the lifts at Whistler 3 times to save the majority of a day's approach on trips that were done under our own power for up to 6 days after the lift ride.

 

Basically post some TRs under your current user names or tell us your normal user name with links to all the rad human powered trips you've done and then maybe we can talk.

 

On a side note what's with your user name, "justplanecrazy," are you crazy about planes or are you too stupid to use a dictionary when you meant to type the word plain

[fenderfour]

Dirtbag, don't mind the assholes on here. There are a few ignorant, arrogant, stupid, f*ckn*t pricks on here and apparently it's contagious and spreading rapidly.

 

Oh and seeing how everyone is saying it, F*ck You!!!

 

I think we found our ignorant ass.

 

Yay!!! you know about planes and bellypoppers! Quit being such an asshole. Wash the sand out of your crack and behave like a normal person instead of an anonymous internet fucktard.

[justplanecrazy]

Sorry Angry Frog, I didn't realise, that you were a fat poser. I just thought that you were lazy Frenchie. I shouldn't have ridiculed against you either way, it's obvious you need emotional support.

 

Honestly if you can't see the changes happening to our routes and climate, you're retarded. I used to trip out to Glacier National Park in Roger's pass annually. The pictures from 20 years ago are shocking. It'll only be a few more years until the Glacier isn't even visible from the road. Whether or not my car causes that is debateable, but the world is changing for the worse and we really need to start changing how we live.

 

You can't pull a fish out of the sea and not find lead in it, there are virtually no water sources without pollutants in it, almost all species of animals have been affected by population growth. Go take a run in China and then come back here and try and tell me with a straight face that we can continue to do what we're doing with no worries. The world is changing, use birth control and don't fly choppers to the dome!!!

[cj001f]

Recent studies have shown people who live a sedentary lifestyle (sitting on the couch watching TV) require less energy from food, therefore consume less fossil fuels (since food production is one of the major sources of fossil fuel consumption in the western world).

 

Ergo, dirtbag, you hate the planet.

[beecher]

The harsh feedback to this post is astonishing. I didn't feel the invitation to open our minds a little bit was an attack in any way.

Most of us are living incredibly wasteful lifestyles, and many of us outdoor recreators are the worst offenders with the number of miles we spend on the road and in the air to get to our destinations. I have not cracked my way out of this american lifestyle and figured out how to eliminate this and satisfy all of my lifestyle desires, but I am glad there are others who think about it and inspire me to make changes by starting with me first.

Thanks and have a good rant while I examine my own hypocrisy.