H**d Aftermath..

[SFDukie]

I have climbed in the Cascade range for 26 years; have been reading Accidents In North American Mountaineering and other climbing accident reports/stories for most of that time and, although there must have been such occurances, I cannot recall one where an experienced climber was lost/missing, etc. whose death would likely have been prevented by wearing a "locator beacon" or similar device. A possible exception is some of the persons lost in the 1986 Mt. Hood disaster, but they pretty much did not fit the description of "experienced climber". On the other hand, inexperienced climbers, hunters, skiers, fisherman, snomobilers, hikers, campers(who didn't even plan to leave a campsite) and vehicle drivers get lost all the time(and often don't tell anyone where they are going. Perhaps we should all put on a beacon when we leave the house.

 

FWIW-PMR credited an MLU with shortening the time of a "difficult" rescue in 1/03. The climbers were with Mazamas,and the PMR release referred to them as "experienced mountaineers." "Additionally, the fact that they had a cell phone to communicate with the authorities and two means of locating their whereabouts - a GPS receiver and a MLU transmitter - significantly shortened the time needed to complete this difficult rescue. "

 

Iain Morris and Nick Pope were part of the 4 man rescue team, so perhaps they can shed more light on this if they choose...

PMR release

Don

 

 

 

Edited to add:

KGW has a poll up online asking"Do you think Mt Hood should be closed to climbers during severe weather?" KGW poll

 

KATU has a story up "fight over mandatory beacons renews"

Report seems to confabuate PLBs with MLUs. KATU story

Edited December 21, 2006 by SFDukie

[JosephH]

[Cross-posted from ST...]

 

- The intersection of all climbers, all risks, and all accidents is an unavoidable reality. The 'incident horizon' of that intersection is only definable in hindsight.

 

- Others' public journeys beyond [and back from] that 'incident horizon' are personalized by us each according to our need - some will say it's 'luck' Lynn Hill survived or 'fate' Alex Lowe didn't - but one can never really know.

 

- Every climb is a dynamic union of 'subjective' reality (talent, skill, fitness, experience...) and 'objective' reality (route, gear, weather...). Our ability to accurately perceive, evaluate, entertain, and mitigate risk within that union is itself an aspect of 'subjective' reality.

 

- Climbers all choose to operate within a self-defined 'comfort zone' at some distance from the boundary of all [perceptable] risk. One's range of exercisable options at any given moment is, in large part, a function of proximity to that boundary.

 

- Risk is managed or mismanaged similarly across all levels of skill and experience. Those capable of a higher order of risk management quite often play much closer to the edge than those with lesser capabilities - that sometimes normalizes their respective risk profiles - sometimes not (e.g. Reardon is probably safer free soloing 5.12 than I am 5.9).

 

- Understanding how and why accidents happen may help us individually avoid them in the future. Judgment about those involved might even reinforce our own ability retain those 'lessons' - but - it likely also prejudices us to associate the accident with that individual rather than with their circumstance, thus diluting the true value of the 'lesson'.

 

- 'I am He as You are He as You are Me And We are all together...' - either sage wisdom or apt irony spoken by someone whose life was taken by someone not himself. Either way 'I'm crying...'

 

[joekania]

Don't put much stock in the conjecture that talking heads spout in their daily ratings grab- "If it bleeds, it leads" is their mantra. This kind of event makes producers and ad execs drool with anticipation of market share and ad revenue, and they have to keep up with the Joneses to stay afloat. Unfortunately, the viewing public is done a great disservice since they are given only the news that has video to go with it. Usually it's lame video of a wrecked car or a chalk outline. Ever watch a TV news story about legislation? 30 seconds of airtime, max. But when a full scale rescue is in motion, and they have time to deploy choppers and talking heads, well it's a grand day in the newsroom, you would think Kennedy rose from the dead and got shot all over again by the amount of airtime they give it. Think about the kid in the well, or trapped miners- it's the only chance tv news has to get footage of news while it's actually happening, not after the scene has gone cold. And once every news outlet is talking about something, they have to dig deeper into people's lives or speculate about the situation just to provide something new that another station doesn't have, and it serves no one, especially since they are too removed from it all to contribute positively to the debate.

 

So I don't think that there will be laws against climbing anytime soon. Who is going to patrol a mtn just to check permits or write tickets because you forgot your waterproof matches? What govenment org can even fund a force to do that? And as soon as the climbing lobby (that's right, don't think gear mfrs won't organize one, if it's not already in place) or citizen groups of climbers (look what is happening with the Fee "Demo" program) brings up the remarkably low numbers of climbing SAR in relation to swimmers, boaters, etc., no legislator will back a bill with those kind of facts against it. A $100,000 rescue, every 2-3 years? Heck what's a police/fire rescue boat cost to purchase, maintain, and man, per year? And who is doing mountain rescues again? Oh yeah, VOLUNTEERS. If anything, it may be beneficial to see a permit system on places like Hood to keep numbers down so we don't see a rope team take out another group like we saw a few years back.

 

So don't let the media monkey on your back thwart your own view of reality. They won't say another word about it after this event blows over, and won't say anything again until the next high-profile rescue. And since climbing rescues don't cost taxpayers much, comparatively (which is what counts sadly), little is likely to be done to deal with a minor but very complicated issue with little public outcry.

 

And as for our responsibility to arm others with good beta, it is the individual climber's decision what to take/wear/when to go, end of story. If we offer advice and they do or don't take it and they do or do not get into trouble, causality still rests on the climber's choice.

 

My $.02

[rbw1966]

Blackhawk helicopters bouncing off Crater Rock loosing their props all over the snow (no one was hurt!).

 

Actually, the guy in the door of that black hawk ended up getting a pretty serious back injury.

 

I agree that this, aside from the tragic loss of life, this will soon blow over. Legislators have more 'important' things on their minds and the media will find the next soundbite elsewhere.

[jmace]

Don't put much stock in the conjecture that talking heads spout in their daily ratings grab- "If it bleeds, it leads" is their mantra. This kind of event makes producers and ad execs drool with anticipation of market share and ad revenue, and they have to keep up with the Joneses to stay afloat. Unfortunately, the viewing public is done a great disservice since they are given only the news that has video to go with it. Usually it's lame video of a wrecked car or a chalk outline. Ever watch a TV news story about legislation? 30 seconds of airtime, max. But when a full scale rescue is in motion, and they have time to deploy choppers and talking heads, well it's a grand day in the newsroom, you would think Kennedy rose from the dead and got shot all over again by the amount of airtime they give it. Think about the kid in the well, or trapped miners- it's the only chance tv news has to get footage of news while it's actually happening, not after the scene has gone cold. And once every news outlet is talking about something, they have to dig deeper into people's lives or speculate about the situation just to provide something new that another station doesn't have, and it serves no one, especially since they are too removed from it all to contribute positively to the debate.

 

YUP sounds like Joe works within media cause thats spot on, even bit understated.

 

And as for our responsibility to arm others with good beta, it is the individual climber's decision what to take/wear/when to go, end of story. If we offer advice and they do or don't take it and they do or do not get into trouble, causality still rests on the climber's choice.

 

Damn Right!

[Choada_Boy]

Those matches will come in handy when you're trying to build a bonfire out of snow in a blizzard.

[niyol]

Another thing, if they do restrict or ban certain types/times of climbing on Mt Hood, what an utterly fucked up legacy that is to lay on those 3 climbers. Does anyone think thats what they would have wanted?

 

Of course that's not the sort of legacy that they would have wanted to leave, but keep in mind that the people who make the laws for the most part probably have very little perspective on what climbing is about. I remember a few months ago seeing a story in the Oregonian about a 19 year old hiker (as opposed to CLIMBER) who was described as an "avid outdoorsman" who stepped out of his tent near Mt. Hood at night to take a leak and fell off a cliff. He was trying to sue the Federal Government for not posting signs warning of dangerous cliffs.

[Weekend_Climberz]

Who is going to patrol a mtn just to check permits or write tickets because you forgot your waterproof matches? What govenment org can even fund a force to do that?

 

Ever hear of Larry the Tool! Go into the Enchantments without a proper permit, you'll get a ticket every time. Sometimes when you do have a proper permit.

[SFDukie]

Who is going to patrol a mtn just to check permits or write tickets because you forgot your waterproof matches? What govenment org can even fund a force to do that?

 

Ever hear of Larry the Tool! Go into the Enchantments without a proper permit, you'll get a ticket every time. Sometimes when you do have a proper permit.

Whitney portal anytime after May 1 without a permit and you'll have a pretty high probability of getting tagged as well.

[Clavote]

The Sheriff should check every climber for the required equipment. There should be a $100 fee for each of the 40,000 people who attempt the summit each year. The equipment list is as follows:

1-Bright Orange Hooded Gortex Parka and Pants

2-Bright Orange Tent and Down Sleeping Bag

3-Matches

4-Extra Socks

5-Cell Phone with Spare Battery

6-Food and Water for one week

7-Ropes and all that other stuff like crampons, ice axe, etc

8-Signal mirror and whistle

9-Compass

10-List of next of kin

 

Ugh.....give me a break.

 

Food water for a week on a glaciated peak? What about a stove and fuel? Compass but no topo map?

 

Been in the mountains long?

 

Maybe we should all pack some extra underwear in case of an accident and we crap ourselves and need to be clean and fresh smelling during the rescue. Now that's survival thinking!

 

Red clothing? are you kidding people already look like consumerist nightmares in flourescent colored clothing from REI.

Maybe we could carry flares and smoke markers too?

It's pretty hard to see a small red dot from thousands of feet.

 

I think your ideas are misguided but well intentioned. Climbing is (partly for some) about YOU not getting into MY business.

If something goes wrong and I screwed up, it's natural selection and I do not want legislation imposed on you for my mistakes,

and not from somoene who is not fully aware of what climbing is about.

 

 

[Clavote]

Another thing, if they do restrict or ban certain types/times of climbing on Mt Hood, what an utterly fucked up legacy that is to lay on those 3 climbers. Does anyone think thats what they would have wanted?

 

Of course that's not the sort of legacy that they would have wanted to leave, but keep in mind that the people who make the laws for the most part probably have very little perspective on what climbing is about. I remember a few months ago seeing a story in the Oregonian about a 19 year old hiker (as opposed to CLIMBER) who was described as an "avid outdoorsman" who stepped out of his tent near Mt. Hood at night to take a leak and fell off a cliff. He was trying to sue the Federal Government for not posting signs warning of dangerous cliffs.

 

And yet, they let people like this reproduce and keep their DNA in our gene pool. Maybe they should issue reproduction permits so we can cull out the dumber genes in our society. If your IQ is lower than some threshold (someone else gets to decide this) you get sterilized.

 

Oh, wait...China kinda used to do this. Nevermind, even the stupid have the right to reproduce in America because we are free and not a communist/socialist country. So leave the rest of us alone and we'll let you replicate yourself.

[selkirk]

I think we should all lobby heavily to have warning labels removed from common household products. You know like toothpaste. If you kill yourself with toothpaste you really shouldn't spawn.

[enelson]

we'll let you replicate yourself.

 

replicate, sounds futuristic 8D

[still_climbin]

Climbing any of the NW volcanos in the face of a storm is more than risky, yet there seems to be an attitude that winter mountaineering has gone mainstream so the risks are more acceptable. Fact is that a winter storm on one of the volcanos can be harrowing; a clear lesson that nature is in charge and you're not. I've been on Hood in winter, a few yards from where this past week's dramma unfolded, in 100+ mph winds and bailed when a huge banner cloud formed over the peak warning of an oncomming storm. We were lucky and narrowly escaped a huge snow event that closed Mt Hood Meadows for several days due to the high risk of deep snow deaths.

 

Last year there were some great winter ascents reported on this site. But, most of them were not done in the face of a major storm and I'm sure that those climbers cancelled or bailed many times before finally bagging a great climb. I think that a service we can do on this site is to heighten awareness that winter climbing is far different than summer in terms of the expectation that you can schedule a trip (coordinate vacations, etc) and feel entitled to success. The same goes for encouraging sprint alpine style winter ascents with virtually no gear or resilience to ANYTHING that goes wrong.

 

 

[Stefan]

result = less noobies on Hood. They will be too afraid.

[jmace]

its not even winter yet...oh wait 2 more minutes

[jca]

Of all the lessons I learned in climbing the hardest to absorb was knowing when to say when(learned the hard way...by numerous bad experiences). But those experiences are priceless...now that they are far behind and I am warm, dry, fed and rested.

[G-spotter]

winter wasn't the only thing that came at 4:20 today

[sk]

winter wasn't the only thing that came at 4:20 today

 

damn it i told you not to tell any one about our little fling

[G-spotter]

[blondontherocks]

I think the media is using the incident on Mt Hood as a way to get the general public to support more rules & regulations. It is a good distraction from other sources of government waste, when reality the cost of climber rescues is minimal in comparison. More rules / fees & permits will limit the use of our recreation areas to those with high incomes, not necessarily appropriate skills. It is already bad enough with permits in some counties that you almost need a permit to change a light bulb in your house. I don't think that is the direction we want to send our recreational areas.

[pink]

they love to restrict land, don't they.

[billcoe]

they love to restrict land, don't they.

 

Yup, it's your land too, they want to keep you off of land you, me and everybody who already owns it.

 

Fuck em.

[sk]

they love to restrict land, don't they.

 

Yup, it's your land too, they want to keep you off of land you, me and everybody already owns.

 

Fuck em.

 

 

Ya, what he said!

[le mare mountain]

Details... details... let's face facts folks. No ONE, not anyone of us can know what happened. There are only 3 souls who truly do know. And we can't ask them! We will NEVER know! We can surmise, discuss and speculate all we want. There are many theories, many possibilities. It is sad, heartbreakingly so. I pray for those guys, I pray for their family and friends. Some of which are reading this., all of this.Let's keep that in mind.

Also: those who climb, do it for the joy, passion, thrill, challenge, adventure and sense of accomplishment. And fully understand that we could find ourselves under circumstances - that may cost a life- our life. You NEVER KNOW when something will happen! Maybe, just maybe when it happens to you or to me, we will be lucky enough to have thought that specific possible contingency and be as prepared as possible for the particular one we are dealt. Prepared enough to survive. Hindsight is always 20-20.. but living it in the moment is not always so. and when you factor in the extreme cold and 100mph wind, and confusion and white outs...well. These guys, as it appears, had a plan, they researched it, and packed for it, as they expected and hoped it would go down. By the notes and plans they left behind,they WERE prepared for a few possible contingencies.They had backup plans, therefore it stands to reason they had backup materials. Unfortunately fate or Nature delivered a deadly blow. So it doesn't really matter what my "theory" is about what happened, it doesn't matter if I'm correct or not, Nor if any of us "guess" correctly. What matters, simply is we have lost 3 brothers. Fellow climbers..who have family and friends that needed them in their lives. We Hope that all who love us also respect our passion for the sometimes "adventurous" or "dangerous" things we do, risks we take, that ultimately bring us joy and happiness. Personally I NEED to live on the edge or on some ledge, or side of a mountain in the far reaches of nature to be my happiest. I consider us fortunate that WE know what makes US happy. I accept the consequences of my choices and my actions.

 

Rest in Peace James, Brian and Jerry. I pray the Angels embrace your loved ones with their wings of love and comfort as they did for you in your last moments.

 

Le Mare

_________________________

To be a success, is to be able to live your life in your own way.