niyol

I lived in Durango for a while... if you make it there never ever leave...

OK, but I work with D.O.D. ... will that be a problem? Oops... aparently it was... now if all of you would dig a really big hole.... ummmm. don't worry... just normal precautions...

OK, but I work with D.O.D. ... will that be a problem?

oh i assure you it can and often does get much better. ohhh... stop... please stop... wait... no don't stop.... just kidding

oh i assure you it can and often does get much better. ohhh... stop... please stop...

Thank you so much for your kind offer but I'm afraid that once I started I wouldn't be able to stop until the computers of all the ignorant ones were cold an dead... P.S. can you set me up with Muffy???

Umm... actually if they die then the chicks remain unattended.... thus for the welfare of the poor unprotected females in the pic... I agree that the humanitarian thing to do would be to post their numbers...

There ya go... that just about sums it up! Well said. The town I currently live in is full of folks who wouldn't take a risk if their life depended on it and can't even conceive of why anyone would willingly put themself at risk for any reason. I work in medicine so I have over the years seen a lot of people die of a lot of things... one person who stands out was a guy in his early forties who was diagnosed with cancer. He said it was not possible for him to have cancer because he had never smoked, didn't drink, ate right and exercised daily... he had no risk factors... but here he was dying anyway... although he had never taken a risk in his life. I was a rodeo clown when I was in my teens. It was scary. I knew that I could get hurt pretty bad and I had known a couple of clowns and riders who had gotten killed. I didn't want to die, but I did want to live the kind of life that other people dreamed about. I also knew that if you were good enough with the bulls you had a pretty good chance of never getting critically injured or killed (though you did have to accept that you would occasionally get knocked around pretty good). I don't rodeo anymore. I am older and slower and it is no longer an acceptable risk because the declining agility and speed increase my chances of getting messed up. I do climb however. I hope to be a climber as long as I am alive. Mountains have become an integral part of me. I do not consider either of these avocations "suicidal". I would rather not die period. I would prefer to live forever and pursue women who were so much younger than myself to be disturbing to more cultured folk (and to drink scotch that was so much older than me that I needed a government grant to afford it). The cold facts are however that just like the guy with no risk factors who got cancer, everyone dies of something. I don't go up a mountain thinking "Damn... it would be really cool to die up there today hoka hey!" But I do accept that it could happen. If you don't understand and accept it ... and if your family doesn't understand and accept it, then you have no business being on a mountain. Is climbing an acceptable risk... Hell ya! For me it is. If it isn't an acceptable risk for you don't climb.. its not required. Given the choice of dying over a period of a few years of old age or any other of a hundred of gruesome "natural" ways to die as opposed to dying on a mountain... personally I'll take the mountain every damn time.

Great idea!! Perhaps we could extend that to closing down mountains that are too steep or too high or that are so remote as to make rapid rescue difficult. Maybe we could close anything down that has crevasses or that has sufficient slope to create a potential for avalanche! After all, every climber has an equal ability, right? So obviously mountains or conditions that are not "safe" for novices aren't safe for anyone. Sorry... I've been working hard to control psychotic outbursts of spittle-flying rage when posting to this site because of my "barely a n00b status" here but any time someone states that it is a good idea to legislate when or what mountains can be climbed or by whom they should be climbed, I feel society has an immediate overwhelming need to destroy them. Perhaps a better way to promote responsible climbing would be to have each climber sign a form that states in big bold letters "I understand I can die here" before every climb no matter whether it is Ranier or the Middle Sister... that is the reality of climbing.

Umm... but there are all those confusing laws about the legal age of consent for sheep

I got started when I joned a mountain rescue unit years ago (I joined because I was flunking calculus and my professor was a member of the unit... I thought joining might help my grades. I still flunked, but discovered mountaineering and thus true happiness) Most units can use volunteers and it is a very good way to not only gain necessary knowledge, but find a community of people to climb with. Books are great, but you really should find some folks who can help you put it all together in the field.

Two guys in nice suites playing this game knocked on my door the other night. I offered them a beer a bong hit and some magic tea but they declined so I asked them if they were government spys who were out to get me, and they said no. Then they tried to hand me a book and I tried to hand them the bong and they said no so I asked them if they were government spys and they said no. Then they asked me if I had read their book and I offered them a beer and they said no so I asked them if they were government spys and they said no so I told them to fuck off. I guess I won the game. Dude.. where is your house?? I would wear a suit an give you a book if I could have a bong an some magic tea!!

See now that's another advantage to posting a flashing nun at the Pearly Gates, as was discussed in another thread... I'm very very old and sometimes the stamina begins to flag but the prospect of a comely nun near the top would help keep me focused and perhaps help me squeeze a last few steps out of these old withered muscles...

its probably hot mostly where the latex is right up against the body... looks like there is plenty of room for ventilation and air movement that would provide some cooling... well... and probably a bit of whistling in a high wind... kinda like when you blow across a the top of a pop bottle... the whole um... girl skydiving naked effect...

um... where you piss?

Um... you know... if they posted a flashing nun at or near Pearly Gates I might be willing to pay a rescue deposit AND carry a locator device!

Redirect those assholes to this post. Unfortunately since those assholes aren't climbers, they won't see the post.. that's kinda the point. A lot of decisions may be made in the near future by people who don't have a clue about SAR or climbing. It wouldn't hurt to get some of these facts out in front of the non-climbing community.

maybe editing posts i uncreative, but so is telling someone to fuck a horse. eggplant seems much more socially responsible. sorry i was gone from work and couldn't get back to your insult right away!! Telling someone to fuck a horse may not be creative, but if the horse keeps calling you afterwards, I would say that is worth some bragging rights!

I noticed that the Oregonian had a block of letters to the editor today that were all supporting either requiring PLBs, rescue insurance or advocating that climbers not carrying locator devices be required to pay for their own rescue. The tone was that the governor should revisit requirements like this because of the financial costs of rescuing climbers. If any of you get a chance, you may want to take a look at the editorial page. Many of the facts that have been discussed on recent boards concerning SAR need to be put in front of the non-climbing public. The media attention seems to be driving an assumption that most rescue operations involve climbers.

I did think that Gammelgaard did a good job of supporting Boukreeves side of the story. I thought Krakauer tended to try to scapegoat Boukreeve in his "Thin Air" book. Most accounts that I have read support that Boukreeve was a hero on that climb.

I would be up for a late spring North Sisters or Jefferson thing. I climb trad pretty conservatively, been climbing since 1980, Hood, Ranier, Middle and south Sister, Shasta.

In a related story, tomorrow morning Rosie O'Donnell will be discussing the need for requiring all climbers & outdoors types to have a supply of barbecue sauce with them at all times. It should be mandatory for climbers to carry Rosie O Donnell with them on winter climbs... if they got lost they could split her like a taun taun and climb inside

Glacier Travel and Crevasse Rescue by Andy Selters is pretty decent. Also Wilderness Search and Rescue by Tim Setnicka is excellent (if you can still find it... the one I have is from 1980)

Of course that's not the sort of legacy that they would have wanted to leave, but keep in mind that the people who make the laws for the most part probably have very little perspective on what climbing is about. I remember a few months ago seeing a story in the Oregonian about a 19 year old hiker (as opposed to CLIMBER) who was described as an "avid outdoorsman" who stepped out of his tent near Mt. Hood at night to take a leak and fell off a cliff. He was trying to sue the Federal Government for not posting signs warning of dangerous cliffs.

If you absolutely have to read Krakauer's book then you kind of owe it to yourself to read "Climb High" by Lene Gammelgaard, "High Exposure" By David Breashears and "The Climb" by Anatoly Boukreev to perhaps get a little different perspective on Everest "96". After reading all four accounts I came away with the feeling that if I was ever on a climb that went bad I would seriously hope that Krakauer wasn't the one who was there to write about it.