jules Posted May 30, 2002 Posted May 30, 2002 quote: Originally posted by Bug: My guess is that his boot blew away in the tent. Very possibly... he fell trying to check on the 1st man that fell, couldn't climb back up in the soft liner and one shell, decided to descend. The decision that very probably saved his life. Quote
Norman_Clyde Posted May 30, 2002 Posted May 30, 2002 It's true, I don't know for sure that he descended Liberty Ridge, and I made that conclusion based on the fact that he called from St. Elmo Pass and not Schurman. Apparently he borrowed a cell phone from other climbers. I don't know if Schurman is staffed this time of year, but I was guessing that if he came down the Winthrop he probably would have been able to call from Schurman. I do not want to start rumors or add to the speculation-- my primary point was that the infamous hazard of weather on Liberty Ridge may not have been the primary factor in this tragedy. It may be that the same thing would have happened, had their snow cave collapsed anywhere on the summit plateau. Quote
Stefan Posted May 30, 2002 Posted May 30, 2002 About 2.5 weeks ago a couple came off of Rainier. They were 3 days late in coming off of Liberty Cap after they summitted via Liberty Ridge. Their climb was to last 4 days. It lasted 7 days. They made an emergency phone call at the Shurman Camp to tell people they were okay. One person had a part of his pinky taken off due to frostbite. Â One of the persons on this climb is a friend of a friend. Â Speculation by Stefan in regards to this past rescue: Maybe the person (without the hardshell)came down the Emmons/Winthrop glacier. Maybe he came to Camp Shurman and made the emegency call from the camp. Maybe the rescuers told him to descend from the camp and meet at St. Elmo's pass to pick him up. Maybe the helicopter pilot decided St. Elmo's pass was a better pickup than Glacier Basin......... Â [ 05-30-2002, 02:31 PM: Message edited by: Stefan ] Quote
Off_White Posted May 30, 2002 Posted May 30, 2002 quote: Originally posted by Dru: Bruce Hendricks lost one of his plastics at the bivi ledge on Supercouloir on Mt Deltaform in the 90s and finished the climb (he was soloing) with a crampon strapped on to his foot clad in 6 pairs of wool socks  Holy shit. I can just imagine the feeling in the pit of your stomach watching your boot run away on that route. Solo? Wildman. Quote
Dru Posted May 30, 2002 Posted May 30, 2002 ya well the guy soloed Blessed Rage, Nemesis etc probably it felt cruiser to him..... Quote
Rodchester Posted May 30, 2002 Posted May 30, 2002 Lots of maybe, maybe, maybe, going on here.... Â Iain wrote: "she was taking an introductory mtn'ing course." Â Lib Ridge as an intro...hmmmm. Quote
wdietsch Posted May 30, 2002 Posted May 30, 2002 http://www.kgw.com/news-local/stories/kgw_0529_news_mountain_rescue.65435ef.html  2 male German students from OSU along with a gal from Lebanon, OR and a female friend from Germany Quote
jhamaker Posted May 31, 2002 Posted May 31, 2002 Tent problems -> snow cave problems -> -> -> Death. Â OSU students (if undergrads) = inexperienced Quote
slothrop Posted May 31, 2002 Posted May 31, 2002 ANAM is going to be a very interesting read this year Quote
payaso Posted May 31, 2002 Posted May 31, 2002 With this and the accident at Hood today be ready for massive public debate to be brought up regarding the ever recurring 'Who should pay for the rescue' issue. This coverage just precipitates the public perception that climbing is 'crazy' and that climbers should have to pay their own bill for the rescue. Quote
Necronomicon Posted May 31, 2002 Posted May 31, 2002 Good anti-gaper negative stimulus, though, keep the hordes surpressed for a bit. Quote
pindude Posted May 31, 2002 Author Posted May 31, 2002 Quote: ANAM is going to be a very interesting read this year  Unfortunately, the current year's accidents will appear in the 2003 ANAM...ANAM usually does not come out until summer, so we'll have to wait a whole year to read the official reports about the current tragedies.  My condolences to those of you who knew any of these climbers, or ever have lost partners, friends or family to a climbing or related accident.  And my newer found appreciation to all those who participate in rescues, whether you are a formal rescuer or just happen by and commit to help.  --pindude  [ 05-31-2002, 12:17 AM: Message edited by: pindude ] Quote
pindude Posted May 31, 2002 Author Posted May 31, 2002 quote: Originally posted by payaso: With this and the accident at Hood today be ready for massive public debate to be brought up regarding the ever recurring 'Who should pay for the rescue' issue. This coverage just precipitates the public perception that climbing is 'crazy' and that climbers should have to pay their own bill for the rescue. No shit, Payaso, you hit the nail on the head. I had just logged off and was about to turn off the tube on my way to bed when an ad for tomorrow night's ABC evening news announces, "Should we pay for climber's rescues?"  Truth is hikers, hunters, and other outdoorspeople cost society more for rescues, compared to climbers. Let the debate continue...  --pindude  [ 05-31-2002, 12:26 AM: Message edited by: pindude ] Quote
Skisports Posted May 31, 2002 Posted May 31, 2002 another thing to think about is that you don't have to have any knowledge about climbing to climb period. any two people can sign up and climb mount Rainier. same gose with hood or any other peak that brings attention Quote
Bug Posted May 31, 2002 Posted May 31, 2002 One thing I never speculate about is wether or not a gust of wind might pop up and blow away my stuff. I always assume it will happen and stake down my gear with a picket or two. I would speculate that these poor people might have benefitted from such an assumption. My guess is that his boot blew away in the tent. Then again, I have seen head sized rocks get rolled at the base of Castleton tower by a gust of wind. He could even have been trying to put it on when it blew away. Whatever the case, if anything good can come from this sort of thing, it is the opportunity to learn from those mistakes and passing that knowledge along. Quote
freeclimb9 Posted May 31, 2002 Posted May 31, 2002 quote: Originally posted by pindude: "Should we pay for climber's rescues?" [/QB] The bummer was that the Rainier operation was a recovery, not a rescue. Quote
Figger_Eight Posted May 31, 2002 Posted May 31, 2002 I remember reading the most expensive search and rescue in the National Parks was a senator's daughter who got lost hiking in Grand Canyon. I think they brought in the National Guard even. They find her walking on a road a couple of miles away, but the cost went into the millions. Quote
Juneriver Posted May 31, 2002 Posted May 31, 2002 quote: Originally posted by Flat Lander: BTW, how did the two women die? Was it the collapse of the snow cave or exposure? The news never said... This report has pretty good details on what happened up there. Â http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/134465073_rainier31m.html Quote
iain Posted May 31, 2002 Posted May 31, 2002 quote: Originally posted by Rodchester: Lots of maybe, maybe, maybe, going on here.... Â Iain wrote: "she was taking an introductory mtn'ing course." Â Lib Ridge as an intro...hmmmm. That was over a year ago. Whether a year's worth of experiences are enough for Liberty Ridge? Dunno. It looks like Memorial Day vacation syndrome more than anything. "I've scheduled this climb for this 3-day weekend, and we're going to tough it out". OSU students seem to have made a habit out of getting in trouble on Liberty Ridge at this time. Quote
CleeshterFeeshter Posted May 31, 2002 Posted May 31, 2002 My two cents of experience Tried Lib Ridge in June 97 and backed off at Curtis Ridge before getting on the Carbon. We decided weather looked risky. Retried in June 98 (same weekend RMI killed that dude on the slide on the DC). We had a foursome. One guy in the group made the dumbass statement "Ive climbed Rainier 3x and weather never is bad up here" Needless to say, we got hammered at the top of the black pyramid by a nasty moving storm. We decided to summit rather than risk the descent on unconsolidated snow. Our group was literally picked up off our feet and thrown several times by the wind descending the Emmons near the summit. I have warned several people that they need to go over and do the DC a couple of times before lib ridge. I suspect the route is just starting to get hungry for fresh meat. Quote
Flat_Lander Posted June 1, 2002 Posted June 1, 2002 My buddy and I saw that group heading up to the Thumb on Sunday. And then on Monday we headed up the Carbon and were witness to a huge avalanche just to the west of the Liberty Ridge route. At that point we decided that with the storm coming in that night and the avalanch that we should turn around and save it for another day. We would have been right there behind them. Many times since hearing the tragic news have I imagined what might have happened. Â Let us all try and learn from the mistakes of those who come before us. Quote
Flat_Lander Posted June 1, 2002 Posted June 1, 2002 BTW, how did the two women die? Was it the collapse of the snow cave or exposure? The news never said... Quote
dbb Posted June 2, 2002 Posted June 2, 2002 It may be nit picking, but just because you can follow the trough up the DC 5 times in a summer, doesn't mean you have the sense to climb a route like liberty ridge. In fact, climbing a route like the DC over and over probably just instills a false sense of security about your own judgement on the mountain. Â btw, the survivor descended the winthrop glacier. Epic. Quote
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