Bitten at Tieton

[Off_White]

City of Rocks, I had a couple snake enounters...

 

Snake in my pack!

phew, just a garter snake

 

Snake on the route!

Phew, just a gopher snake.

[Jason_Martin]

Both the Royal Columns, and this time of year, are incredibly bad for rattlers. I think a buddy and I ran into no less than 30 on a single walk off.

 

I had the very same experience there. And honestly, it's the main reason I haven't gone back there to climb again.

 

Jason

[PBRstreetgang]

I had heard somewhere that icing a bitten limb is a good way to slow tissue damage while you get to the hospital. Is there anyone who can comment on that?

 

 

You are correct sir.

[egaibrev]

Must it be said?

 

I suppose it should, just in case some foolish person believes everything he reads on the internet:

 

The idea of catching/killing a snake to ID it (mentioned somewhere above) is certainly a very poor one-- you are far more likely to get bitten doing this than anything else.

 

Leave the damn thing alone. Just like it wants.

[goatboy]

I've heard of several things which are good to do in theory, but hard in a remote area (i.e. icing, keeping it below the heart, keeping the victims pulse low, etc).

 

Hard to do those things walking out from the Royal Columns though, I reckon!

 

Those extractor kits aren't really recommended as worth the time they take....better to just go to the hospital!

 

SIDE NOTE: Interestingly, I found out that despite the high volume of snakes in the Methow area, the closest snakebite anti-venin is all the way down in Wenatchee....doctors can't really afford to keep the stuff around because its expensive and expires quickly.... anyone know more about the details on that?

[DirtyHarry]

If you're going to get bitten by a snake, I would recomend doing it in the Methow though, The Aero Methow rescue squad doesn't have enough work.

[richard_noggin]

One of the reasons that they are getting so bad there is because there natural ememy that keeps their population in check the birds of pray are scared off by humans.

Rattle snakes to me are like a bees nest if they don't mess with me I don't mess with them, if they do ...well you would'nt let a bees nest survive by your front door would you?

[Off_White]

Damn Dick, there you going being the voice of reason again!

[DirtyHarry]

Well shit, climbers should just start bringing african guiney hens with them when they climb at the Tieton.

[G-spotter]

Or mongooses.

 

Mongeese?

[wfinley]

Once while belaying someone up a climb at the New River Gorge I had a blacksnake crawl out of the crack I had stuffed cams into for an anchor! It was a big one too... and it leaned all way out until it was inches from my nose and stuck it's tongue out a few times checking me out. I froze for about a minute while my partner yelled "TAKE!" over and over again.

 

Afterwards the snake climbed down the crack we climbed and my partner actually felt it slither past his hand which he had jammed into the crack!

 

If you guys are worried about snakes consider packing them up and sending them to some Southeast churches!

[MarkMcJizzy]

One of the reasons that they are getting so bad there is

I do not agree that snakes are getting "bad" there. In the early to mid-eighties, when climbers were few, snakes were many. Then there was a phase when I never saw a snake, which I attributed to the greatly increased climber population.

 

because there natural ememy that keeps their population in check the birds of pray are scared off by humans.

An interesting thought

[andyf]

I've gotta agree with Mark. I've been climbing in the Tieton since 1985 and the snakes were worse back then.

 

I've had a lot of snake encounters, but the most memorable was at Moon Rocks. I was on my fifth try trying to get the FFA of Ages of You. I'd finally cruised through the last crux without hanging or spraining my ankle. I'd just sunk the first sweet hand jam of the route after 60 feet of RPs and #1 Rocks. Right as I was saying "Fuck yeah!" to my partner, I got buzzed by a baby snake lodged in the back of the crack directly in front of my face, still thirty feet from the top. I pasted my feet high, did a reflex karate chop move, and jammed around it in high gear. I wasn't about to blow my clean lead!

 

Seriously, this is the first time I've heard of a climber getting bitten in the Tieton. Not that it couldn't of happened, but I'm not aware of it.

 

In my experience, mass encounters with snakes seem to run in cycles. I've gone an entire season without seeing any at a crag, then gotten buzzed by three in the span of ten feet on my next visit. Snakes always seem most prevalent at the Bend during peak heat waves in the summer. I've also run into a bunches at both the Columns and the Cave in April, when I think they're dispersing from hibernation.

 

That reminds me of another scare. I'd just finished the FA of a route at the Cave (in April) and was getting lowered off. I got buzzed as soon as I hit the ground by a snake a couple of feet away. The guy lowering me heard it and said something like "Whoa," but for what felt like an eternity, he didn't compute that he still had me tethered to the rope. I was like a mad dog on a chain trying to get away. Finally, between me and another person, we got his attention and he played out some slack.

 

Bottom line: There are snakes in the Tieton, especially lower down in the canyon, but based on having spent a LOT of time climbing and exploring crags there for 21 years, I've had MANY more snake free days than days with encounters. And, I've never had one strike at me.

[Weekend_Climberz]

I've got video of a rattlesnake out there. I have only climbed at Tieton a few times and both times I encoutered snakes. At Vantage, on the otherhand, my friends dog has been bitten and I have jumped off of a route when I pulled the top only to find a slithery buddy striking a pose.

[max]

-It's not a good idea to constrict or reduce circulation around the area of the bite,...

 

-Most of the time antivenin is withheld....

 

-Snakebite kits are pieces of shit.

 

OK, I'll start by saying I'm not an expert in this stuff, I've just asked around quite a bit.

 

The big thing to realize when looking at snake bite first aid protocol is that 1. its written to be relatively simply and easy to understand and that 2. it's often oriented towards the neroutoxic snakes. So, now getting to these comments.

 

All three are correct for diamondbacks (hemotoxic).

 

Circulation should not be reduced in any way, be that compress, rubber bands, ice, or lowering of the limb. There is little danger of the toxins reducing cardio or respitory function to a lethal level and reducing the concentration will reduce local damage.

 

Most diamondback bites do not recieve antivenom not only because of the cost, but more so beacause of a high risk of an anaphyactic reaction to the antivenom. Most diamondback bites are not lethal.

 

Snakebite kits (even the sucker type) do little to remove toxins. Poke a hole in an orange with a pin (or two holes...) and suck. You'll get nothing. Follow up with vodka or gin.

 

Generally, first adi should focus on evacuation post haste with basic life support. Split (for pain) if it does not delay evac. Anticipate and treat for vascular shock. Pain meds are good. If possible, mark the margins of the swelling/discoloration and note times during evac. (This helps estimate the quantity of venom.)

[ken4ord]

Huh, I don't have to worry about rattle snakes over here. Just have to worry about the ocassional green mamba, which is known to scurry away really fast in the presence of a human and then sneak up on them later.

[richard_noggin]

Andy's right about climber impact decreasing the snake population, years ago I climbed at the columns almost every weekend , the locals... one guy especially that free soloed the easy routes... said it was tradition there to stone them, he even ranked on me for not stoneing a big one on the trail that I almost stepped on, he said it was th MAMA,now we have the save the snake climbers and no birds of prey hunting there. Last year I seen 5 rattlers slizzzering along the base at one time, it cleared out the crag, my partner and I were the only ones left

[still_climbin]

Being from the Desert East I've come to know them fairly well. The ones we have in E WA are Pacific Rattlers. They seldom grow longer that about three feet, however, I've captured several in the 4-5 ft range. These guys are very shy as far as rattlers go and usually prefer not to rattle, which isn't necessarily good. But they're not aggressive and sometimes a defensive bite carries little if any venom. Most people bitten in E WA have either touched the snake (say by reaching into a hole) or supprised the snake (suddenly stepping in front of it). They are very sensitive to ground vibrations and unually will know your there long before you see them. They prefer to quietly slip down a hole or try to lie undetected. Snake are out this time of the year because the nights are still cold while days are not too hot. As soon as the heat begins they're seldom seen during the day.

[Kat_Roslyn]

 

I have been helping with catching and collecting data from rattlesnakes this spring around washington. There is one den in Vantage that we caught 17! & a whole lot more we didn't catch! I will try to get the photos of the buckets of snakes.

 

It would be a shame if someone hurt these great animals, get to know them instead, they are so beautiful and we can learn so much about how well they've adapted to their environment. I really hope no one here is as ignorant to have tried to kill them.

How often do you really hear about someone getting bit anyway? I've seen some not-so-suprising statistics about the incidence of snake bites and alcohol usage.

If you get a snake bite, keep it immobilized and go to the hospital. Many bites don't release venom, but the shot will cost a hefty $2500.

Max- The only Rattlesnake that lives around here in the Pacific Northwest is a "Northern Pacific Rattlesnake"- Crotalus viridus oreganus, The Diamondback- Crotalus atrox is southern, like Texas and Chihauhaun/Mojave desert.

[olyclimber]

Kat,

 

what factors can you use to assess a bite?

 

amount of venom?

location of bite?

?

 

For a bite on the finger with no obvious venom should you take off for the hospital....or is it cool to have your partner go clean your gear and maybe stop at the pub for a few brews before checking in at the hospital?

[Kat_Roslyn]

Oly,

One can probably assess the location of the bite by process of elimination. First, look everywhere where the snake did not bite you, everywhere that is left over, that is where he or she bit you.

Amount of venom? I don't know, Rattlers are Viperidea family so that means their fangs are highly derived and hollow where the venom is stored. They will just strike and stab, so they don't hold onto the flesh. The venom will degrad your skin tissue, so it probably doesn't matter if you wrap it. I am not into first aid though. Really, more people are hospitalized from bee stings.

 

Drinking and Driving to hospitals.

I was stung by a manta-ray a couple months ago, and could definitly tell there was venom running up my leg. So, I imagine one could feel the venom from a rattler. I definitly had many beers on the way to the hospital!

 

Some tips.

Rattle snake dens are South-south west facing, they have peculiar habits and tend to all go back to the same dens each year, early to mid April is when they all start coming out of torpor to hang out and bask in the sun. You can usually tell where Shnakes will be in the right size boulders of talus slopes, not too big, not too small. They really enjoy substrate temps around 35degrees C. And are faster around this time because it is warmer outside, in the morning they will be slow b/c it is so cool out.

Okay, I could go on forever, have to get back to work.

-Kat

[olyclimber]

I was thinking that say, if the the snake bit you in the aorta or maybe stabbed his/her little fangs into your heart you might be more concerned then if he/she just got an extremity.

 

When looking at all the place where it didn't bite you, do you have any order? I mean, favorite places to look?

[G-spotter]

Drinking and Driving to hospitals.

I was stung by a manta-ray a couple months ago, and could definitly tell there was venom running up my leg. So, I imagine one could feel the venom from a rattler. I definitly had many beers on the way to the hospital!

 

Are you sure it wasn't a hodag or a wolperdinger that stung you? Although in that case you might feel the venom running down your leg rather than up your leg.

[Gary_Yngve]

I really have no idea what the fuck I'm talking about, but I think I'd be more concerned about a snakebite on the finger than on the forearm. I'd be worried about circumferential swelling and venom concentration potentially resulting in loss of limb.

[Kat_Roslyn]

Oly,

I am here for your herpetological inquiries. I believe it may be hard to get a bite in either left or right ventricals. But yes, I think you are right, it would be worse. My favorite place to look -for shnakes- or other herpes? I would not disclose that information in fear of someone trying to harm the snakes.

Though in the event of hunting herpes, one of my favorite "road cruisin" it is common practice in the herpetological field to boost the amount of herpetonin in your blood to attract more herpes. So many dumb jokes, so little time.

-kat