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Choada_Boy

TR: REI BLOWS!! SHOP ELSEWHERE!!!!

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cmon wfinley that's bunk. if your rope got a core shot while you were jugging it over an edge would you take it back to REI and tell them that your older rope never did that?

Especially if he didn't buy it there hahaha.gif

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Any retailer that sells a product where safety is an issue should be concerned when the products they carry have a defect, whether there is conclusive proof of a defect versus excessive abuse. Retailers should be responsible for handling these issues because they are the ones buying in large quantities from these manufactures. Most manufacturers could give a crap if you have a problem because what are you going to do about it? On the otherhand, REI, who's account with BD is probably half of their business, has a lot more leverage in dealing with problems like this even if they are on an individual basis, like "hey we got this helmet returned that is cracked.... MAYBE you should take a look at it."

 

Or you could just stop sitting on your helmet.

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While I'm not a fan of REI or BD, I think the following points need to be considered.

 

Helmets are engineered to be worn on the head. The structure of the human skull adds to the integrity of the design, in the same manner that the human foot stiffens an otherwise floppy rockshoe. One can easily destroy a foam bike helmet with one hard punch if it's sitting on a floor (sans skull), yet I've landed headfirst while wearing one at 40kph and it did its job nicely.

 

Climbing helmets are also designed to take primnary impacts in a relatively vertical mode. They are less effective taking side impacts along the rim (the kind that can crack a helmet). Side impacts from falling debris or a falling climber affect only one side of the helmet. An easy slip while descending easy terrain with the helmet bouncing around on the back of the pack can crush the helmet sideways with forces acting from both sides (unlike a climbing situation). Snagging its underside on a branch while in clydesdale mode will probably do the same thing.

 

Is it cool that the helmet cracked? No. Is it a surprise? Nope.

 

The lesson: Slightly larger pack and French technology.

 

GB

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Aren't bike helmets supposed to crack when you fall on them? Its part of obsorbing the energy and some physics shit like that.

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I think Choada Boy's explanation sounds reasonable. However, his strategy was flawed and the REI goons exploited it.

 

Sounds like he framed his argument around the helmet being defective rather than REI's 100% satisfaction guarantee. Whether the helmet is defective is an arguable point, and the REI person used that. The 100% satisfaction pledge is not. Should have switched to that the minute they started weaseling.

 

Next time I'd try, "I had my misgivings about the lightweight nature of this helmet, but I figured it was worth a try since REI has the 100% satisfaction guarantee. Well, it broke. I gave BD the benefit of the doubt and tried another one, and the second helmet broke too. So, now, I'm definitely not 100% satisfied. I'd like my money back."

 

Or perhaps, more to the point, "I'm not 100% satisfied with this product. I'd like my money back."

 

Any chance you can just take Chuck in next time this happens? Probably be a bit smoother.

 

BTW, I think your poll is flawed. If a helmet is CE rated, than it's good to go. Some helmets are just made radiacilly different from each other. The thin shells are only there to hold the styrofoam in, it's a 1 time shot affair, but they work good for that 1 shot. They have no longevity. Most of the European helmets do not use that kind of arrangement as 1 rock may be the first of 25 on some of those crap north face Alp routes. Don't want to climb all day under rockfall when your helmet shatters from the first rock.

 

What counts is: is the helmet Uiaa or CE rated?

 

from REI site; " Climbing helmets sold at REI all meet standards set by the CEN (European Committee for Standardization) and UIAA (Union Internationale des Associations d'Alpinisme). The helmets are tested for shock and energy absorption, conical impact, security of retention straps and for ventilation. The CEN assures that these products go through quality-control testing as well.

 

Interesting that the BD site doesn't claim either of these standards. They do have a great testimonial. Beat Damn Helmet Ever, TOOK A LICKING AND KEPT ON TICKEN

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Re: DirtyHarry.

That crash broke seven of the foam ribs in the helmet (but it stayed together). Had it needed to absorb that impact without my skull inside there would be foam covering much of the street.

 

Re: Billcoe.

I've heard the arguement against foam climbing helmets many times, but I used a Simond bumper (foam with thin shell) for about 5 years and took countless hits from dinner-plates without damage. Anything big enough to seriously damage that rig when it's worn on your head will snap/crush your neck.

 

I also have a friend who took a 20 foot sideways groundfall impacting a bubble of ice just above his temple. His non-foam helmet either deformed or pushed upwards, in effect providing only minimal protection. He strongly argues that hardshells are great for rockfall, but near f'ing useless for the impacts associated with groundfalls.

 

Owning both, I find hardshells are great because they take up less space in my pack and are cooler, but the foam unit would be my preferred choice for low percentage moves.

 

GB

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Aren't bike helmets supposed to crack when you fall on them? Its part of obsorbing the energy and some physics shit like that.

 

The Half Dome is designed to do the same thing. They get away with a lighter shell because of the polystyrine (sp?) foam insert. This will help absorb the impact of hits that crack through the shell.

 

Another note: buying and returning stuff to REI isn't screwing them. If you want to screw them, support local shops. REI didn't run Base Camp out of business, climbers who shopped at REI did. I previously worked at Backpackers Supply in Tacoma. When REI moved in, we didn't sell as many Nalgenes and Freeze dried food, but got more exposure for our shop when REI was sold out of items, or didn't carry them. REI's customers aren't always the same customers that frequent shops like Feathered Friends, Base Camp (RIP), or Oregon Mountain Community. If you want great stores to stick around, support them.

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... my preferred choice for low percentage moves.

 

GB

 

you're starting to sound like a Coloradope ... time to move back before it's too late!

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CHOAD DUDE, I SUPPORT YOUR RIGHT TO GET ANGRY!! ANGER IS A CLEANSING FORCE JUST LIKE THE DESERT IS A VERY CLEAN PLACE BECAUSE IT IS SO HOT THERE. SO I SAY GET MADDER THAN HELL OVER THIS. PRETTY SOON THERE WILL BE A GROUND SWELL OF PUBLIC SUPPORT AND REI WILL BE OUT OF BUSINESS AND ALL THE LOCAL SHOPS WILL RISE FROM THE ASHES LIKE A PHOENIX, BUT REALLY ANGERY POPULIS PHOENIX THAT WANTS TO OPEN UP A CAN OF WHOOPASS ON CORPORATE AMERICA.

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don't be such a choad. everybody know that the choad is the area between your rectum and your genitals. get your human anatomy straight. rolleyes.gif

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Interesting note on BD Half Dome helmets, not exactly the toughest in the line-up:

 

http://www.thebmc.co.uk/safety/tech/articles/tech_a10.htm

 

I thought I remembered hearing something about MEC pulling these helmets and waiting for the redesigned ones to come out this year.

 

I gotta agree that these huge mega-mart gear stores have to give you their satisfaction gaurantee. They came in and wiped out all the mom and pop stores so the least they can do in return is give us lower prices and a better return policy.

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Let me see if I've got this straight:

 

- REI sucks because they don't carry good gear

- REI sucks because they carry good gear and put small stores out of business

- REI sucks because their return policy sucks

- You shop at REI because of their return policy

- You shop at REI and buy gear you hate

- You shop at REI, and it is their fault that the small stores go tits-up

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REI sucks cuz yer likely to have to rub shoulders with latte drinking tuff-pulling beta-spewing sporto wannabes.

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You should be able to get someone who knows there stuff if you shop at any of the 3 Vertical World pro-shops (Bremerton, Seattle, & Redmond). they might not have the largest selection but they'll probably know what they're talking about.

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Just checked the REI website, they don't even have the BD 1/2 Dome listed. I'm sure it is a direct result of your ranting at the Bellingham customer service. smirk.gif

 

I did find this:

 

"In the case of a severe or significant blow, your helmet may be destroyed. By deforming to the point of destruction, your helmet can absorb the maximum amount of energy. Always retire a helmet after a severe impact."

 

and this:

 

"Although the principal purpose of a helmet is to protect the head against small objects falling onto the wearer, it may also offer limited protection to the head in some cases where the wearer falls onto other surfaces. ALWAYS wear a

helmet."

 

in the 1/2 dome users manual, which you can download off the BD website.

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I used to almost never wear a helmet at all. Then I got married to a worrier. Even though I got divorced, she passed on the worrying to my daughter. Now I almost always wear a helmet but I have a very light weight one for alpine lite stuff. It could probably be ripped in two by a rippling dude but it is a hell of a lot better than nothing and I'm too fat to carry anything heavier. So I'm glad they made it.

Cheers!

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I just got a ski helmet for myself, because it was the only way to get my son to wear a ski helmet, which my wife wants him to do because she's a worrier (and because he's a 14 year old who is absolutely certain he's invincible). I cringed at slapping the cash down for yet another helmet, but it turns out to be very comfortable, light and warm, so much so that I might make it my climbing helmet. I have one of those Petzl eggshell types, but it's never been comfortable and it's so light that it has suffered damage while hanging off my pack !!

 

I tried Second Ascent for ski helmets first, but struck out and had to go to REI instead. Got mine on sale.

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Another good place to get a ski helmet (I too had to get one when I was regularly skiing with a kid) is EvoGear in Fremont. I didn't pay a lot for mine.

 

I have to be honest, now that I'm not skiing with the kid any more, I never wear the helmet.

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"Meanwhile I'm getting pissed, and a lot louder, and if you don't know me, I'm a pretty intimidating looking dude"

 

smelling like cheap beer, wearing a nascar t-shirt that's two sizes too small, and rockin' that mullet..I'll say you're scarry.

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I have no idea what the current policy is but... a while back it used to be that all REI house brand products (jackets, gloves, etc.) were guaranteed for life but nothing else was? So for example, if you took a Petzl item back after several years of abuse, REI wouldn't give just you a new one.

Not to drift threads, but I once saw a guy with an early 80's tent stuff sack demanding a new tent because the stuff sack had a small hole in it. The guy was going apeshit. I couldn't even see the hole (although I was a few feet away).

---

Did anyone see the article in the paper yesterday about REI's record profits for the quarter? They are making some bucks!

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