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klenke

Icicle Canyon Physics Lab Axed

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yippeeee, this is good. plus we will stop seeing all of those no NUSEL signs, and signature gatherers. They also disrupted "the area's beauty"...

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"Some Leavenworth residents opposed the plan" rolleyes.gifmoon.gif How about most or all!

 

May the physics of gravity continue to rule in Icicle.

Edited by matt_warfield

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Raise the pints! regardless of why they cancelled it, It is nice to think that the presence of a climbing community might have had some sort of impact in keeping that away.

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"Some Leavenworth residents opposed the plan" rolleyes.gifmoon.gif How about most or all!

 

May the physics of gravity continue to rule in Icicle.

 

No kidding Matt. I sent an email to the lady who wrote that article. Here is my email:

 

In your article, you stated that "SOME Leavenworth residents opposed the

lab" (my emphasis added). However, the Icicle Valley Protection

Alliance website (http://www.iciclevalley.org/recent-news.html) states,

"Leavenworth Mayor receives 527 letters from area residents against

DUSEL being built here, and 4 letters in favor of the proposal." I

believe the local opposition to this project was OVERWHELMING and that

you understated that fact in your article. I feel it was unfair of you

to quote the losers and give such short shrift to the winners views of

this particular issue.

 

In any case, this news is cause for celebration for nature lovers,

hikers, climbers, and wilderness advocates. Thank heavens this special

piece of the world will be left undisturbed.

 

Cheers,

-Alpinpimp

 

 

Her response:

 

You make an important point and I appreciate your comments. Issues surrounding the lab are certainly more complex than I had room to write about. It will be interesting to see where the lab ends up being built and how people in those communities will respond.

Thank you for reading. All the best, Carina Stanton

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Misrepresentation in the news?

 

Say it ain't so! My world is falling apart. hahaha.gif

 

Good job on the letter, Pax. thumbs_up.gif

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So................

Now that the Icicle's all logged to rat-shit, and heavily salted with fancy houses and privatepropertykeepoutsigns, and fully regimented with legalities of paying to camp, and paying to park, and paying to hike, and fairly well overrun to boot, and...............well golly, in short, now that the Icicle's pretty well fucked up in all possible ways: Folks gonna come along and say it's been saved because they're not gonna drill a little bitty hole in the side!

 

I guess I disagree.

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So................

Now that the Icicle's all logged to rat-shit, and heavily salted with fancy houses and privatepropertykeepoutsigns, and fully regimented with legalities of paying to camp, and paying to park, and paying to hike, and fairly well overrun to boot, and...............well golly, in short, now that the Icicle's pretty well fucked up in all possible ways: Folks gonna come along and say it's been saved because they're not gonna drill a little bitty hole in the side!

 

I guess I disagree.

 

Thank you. I'm happy the physics project has been aborted, but your paragraph nicely summarizes how I feel. Man has certainly changed the Canyon in the last 20 years. Climbers included.

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So................

Now that the Icicle's all logged to rat-shit, and heavily salted with fancy houses and privatepropertykeepoutsigns, and fully regimented with legalities of paying to camp, and paying to park, and paying to hike, and fairly well overrun to boot, and...............well golly, in short, now that the Icicle's pretty well fucked up in all possible ways: Folks gonna come along and say it's been saved because they're not gonna drill a little bitty hole in the side!

 

I guess I disagree.

 

Thank you. I'm happy the physics project has been aborted, but your paragraph nicely summarizes how I feel. Man has certainly changed the Canyon in the last 20 years. Climbers included.

 

 

I don't fully disagree with some of what you say but how about setting the negativity aside once and celebrate this small victory, I mean at the very least what you despise so greatly (developement) has been reduced. Is this not a step in the right direction? or have you simply given up?

 

Little bitty hole? You know damn well the impact woulda been far greater than that, further road "improvements", loss of roadside parking, further land closures, large trucks every few minutes, water use issues, noise/light pollution, the list could easily go on...

 

Perhaps we should gate the canyon at the sleeping bitch and only let people with your "supreme ethical standards" pass through. rolleyes.gif

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I don't fully disagree with some of what you say but how about setting the negativity aside once and celebrate this small victory, I mean at the very least what you despise so greatly (developement) has been reduced. Is this not a step in the right direction? or have you simply given up?

 

Little bitty hole? You know damn well the impact woulda been far greater than that, further road "improvements", loss of roadside parking, further land closures, large trucks every few minutes, water use issues, noise/light pollution, the list could easily go on...

 

Perhaps we should gate the canyon at the sleeping bitch and only let people with your "supreme ethical standards" pass through. rolleyes.gif

 

Yeah! What he said. thumbs_up.gif

 

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I don't fully disagree with some of what you say but how about setting the negativity aside once and celebrate this small victory, I mean at the very least what you despise so greatly (developement) has been reduced. Is this not a step in the right direction? or have you simply given up?

 

Little bitty hole? You know damn well the impact woulda been far greater than that, further road "improvements", loss of roadside parking, further land closures, large trucks every few minutes, water use issues, noise/light pollution, the list could easily go on...

 

Perhaps we should gate the canyon at the sleeping bitch and only let people with your "supreme ethical standards" pass through. rolleyes.gif

 

Haaaaang on Sloopy.................

 

Negativity? Next I suppose I'll get kissed off as a troll. Oh well; let me try:

 

Because I don't see it as a victory. Because I believe that not building the tunnel will 'save' the Icicle in approximately the same sense that not building another Chucky Cheese would 'save' Lynnwood. There's so much damage already..............

 

I guess one thing I find so frustrating about issues like this is that objections so overwhelmingly bear the NIMBY stamp. Few are willing to address the issue of whether such a thing should be built at all............what the benefits might be vs. the drawbacks.............most are merely certain of where they DON'T want it built.

 

Which of the impacts you listed are not already present in spades with all the housing construction going on up there? Why is housing development in the Icicle not (apparently) subject to the same outrage that the tunnel faced? How many members of the "Icicle Alliance" have a house or property up in the canyon.........with, of course, a "Private Property, No Trespassing" sign?

 

Not too long ago, people on this board & elsewhere put up a bunch of their money to purchase a chunk of private Icicle land (Sam Hill)to keep it open to public access. I'd like to commend that as a really positive step in the right direction. In a perfect world I think that would happen every time a For Sale sign goes up in the Icicle.

 

As far as the gate, that's really not such bad idea. I wouldn't sweat the 'supreme ethical standards' too much, but it might be nice to keep the things with engines out of there..............imagine that.

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Because I don't see it as a victory. Because I believe that not building the tunnel will 'save' the Icicle in approximately the same sense that not building another Chucky Cheese would 'save' Lynnwood. There's so much damage already..............

 

I guess one thing I find so frustrating about issues like this is that objections so overwhelmingly bear the NIMBY stamp. Few are willing to address the issue of whether such a thing should be built at all............what the benefits might be vs. the drawbacks.............most are merely certain of where they DON'T want it built.

 

Which of the impacts you listed are not already present in spades with all the housing construction going on up there? Why is housing development in the Icicle not (apparently) subject to the same outrage that the tunnel faced? How many members of the "Icicle Alliance" have a house or property up in the canyon.........with, of course, a "Private Property, No Trespassing" sign?

 

 

I was also disturbed by the amount of petition signs and flagging and other garbage that the Icicle Alliance put up in the canyon as well. I agree, it is not as bad as the thousands of trucks, but I was severely annoyed heading up there to climb and enjoy the wilderness and seeing crap all over the place asking me to sign a petition to keep the canyon pristine...

 

Their hearts are in the right spot, but they did not care about the tactics they used to get there. The ends justifies the means? not really...

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Which of the impacts you listed are not already present in spades with all the housing construction going on up there?

 

And lets not forget the '94 fire (started by a resident) followed by "salvage logging".

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So................

Now that the Icicle's all logged to rat-shit, and heavily salted with fancy houses and privatepropertykeepoutsigns, and fully regimented with legalities of paying to camp, and paying to park, and paying to hike, and fairly well overrun to boot, and...............well golly, in short, now that the Icicle's pretty well fucked up in all possible ways: Folks gonna come along and say it's been saved because they're not gonna drill a little bitty hole in the side!

 

I guess I disagree.

 

thumbs_up.gif I'm with Bruce... Good to see it blocked... but Icicle saved? Far from IMO.

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You guys are friggin clowns. Would "spared" be more appropriate than "saved"? I would love it if the road was never built, wouldn't change a thing for me, a few extra miles of scenic flat hiking, no big deal, but the lines have been set we have to deal with it and this is a step in the right direction, just as MisterMo pointed out about the Sam Hill project.

 

Comparing the impact of a few dozen private residences (and the number currently being built west of snow creek is what maybe 2-3), to that of the construction of that tunnel is weak, there really isn't one. The 94' fire did suck, so did the lightening caused ones in 2000 and 2002.

 

You guys need to stop livin in the past (that some of you weren't even around for) and face the here and now. There is plenty of undeveloped parcels up the canyon, some for sale right now, instead of whinning about how things should/used to be, motivate and set somethin up like the WCC did with Sam Hill. Too damn easy to just sit back isn't it?

 

Bah, whatever, I just think it's weak to consistantly be so friggin glum about everything. thumbs_down.gif

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Comparing the impact of a few dozen private residences (and the number currently being built west of snow creek is what maybe 2-3), to that of the construction of that tunnel is weak, there really isn't one.

 

I betcha that if one actually took some time to quantify and compare impacts over their respective service lives the impacts of those homes would be much closer to, if not actually surpassing, the impacts of the tunnel than you'd think.

From a climber's standpoint which has more impact on your going climbing in the Icicle..............A)the housing at say Rat Creek or 8 Mile? or B)the portal of a tunnel somewhere on Mt. Cashmere?

 

 

 

There is plenty of undeveloped parcels up the canyon, some for sale right now, instead of whinning about how things should/used to be, motivate and set somethin up like the WCC did with Sam Hill.

 

Right on.

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Yeaaa no lab, now back to the dirtclimbing in peace. I do hope they cleanup all that petition bullshit promptly. I mean seriously, Why would the NSF waste billions of dollars to drill a 3mile tunnel in the side of a granite mountain? ...nice pipedream mr wick...

I do agree tho, the houses past snow creek are bullshit, but we can thank the dumbass govt for not buying the private land from the timber company years ago...probably years before most climbers on this dumbass website even heard of "rock climbing." UUUMmm yes, most of the south-side of the icicle was already logged long before the little ratck fire burned the ridges and threatened the cashmere bulldogs.

SLAPPY-are those undeveloped parcels you speak of even climbing worthy acres??

 

AND for the record the Stanton in Pax's letter is no relation to myself.

 

"May the batholith remain untainted!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

 

THAT IS FUCKING FUNNY!

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