Hardman Checklist

[Mr._Natural]

what about rainiey day wimmin? talk about hard men only! way heinous.

[mattp]

I'm not dissin on sport climbers, Tim, but I think the term "hardman" generally does not apply to sport climbing. Sport climbers can be "hardcore" but I don't think that wearing sandals on approach to climbs on dry rock with no real chance of falling or getting hurt is being a "hardman."

[Peter_Puget]

Free your minds! The hardest climb is probably buried beneath the forest canopy.

 

THIS is the modern World!

 

[ 11-19-2002, 10:45 AM: Message edited by: Peter Puget ]

[Peter_Puget]

Mattp - It seems at first that you are talking sense but a quick review of climbing history repeatedly shows that the "Rock Jocks" easily move into alpine territory and shred the existing scene. Long Live Rock!

[dberdinka]

I think being a "Northwest hardman" doesn't necessarily mean you need to climb 5.12 or WI6 (though doing either probably wouldn't hurt your chances) instead it means getting out and doing those routes that WE ALL keep telling ourselves we’re going to do but never quite get around too. Here’s my short list of the routes in question:

 

Complete North Buttress of Bear Mtn

Girth Pillar on Mount Stuart

Thin Red Line

North Buttress of Fury

North Buttress of Terror

North Buttress of Nooksack Tower

North Rib of Slesse

Ptarmigan Ridge on Rainier

Anything technical in winter

 

Any of those would be technically, physically, mentally and climatically challenging to just about any climber in the NW or otherwise. Knock a couple of those off and you probably have the Cascade alpine climbing thing dialed.

[Billygoat]

So, basically, this next generation of hardperson is further removed from exposure and nature through science, technology, a healthy credit limit and a desire to see the fruits of their 401k, yet still acheive goals and solve problems that our hardman forebears could not visualize or made them cringe....or are there some nutbags in wool still out there?

[Alex]

quote:

---

Originally posted by dberdinka:

Complete North Buttress of Bear Mtn

Girth Pillar on Mount Stuart

Thin Red Line

North Buttress of Fury

North Buttress of Terror

North Buttress of Nooksack Tower

North Rib of Slesse

Ptarmigan Ridge on Rainier

Anything technical in winter

---

I've done all those, but have failed miserably on

 

* South Buttress Directissima of Der Tooth

* Direct NW Buttress of Mt Marrymoor, Klewin Finish

* N Face Granite Mountain, Cougars variation

* Howdoyoupronouncethis Rodeo, on the intimidating and sheer North Wall of Si Spire

* The crazy link up of Cougar, Tiger, Bear, and Lions-oh-My! in the Central Cascades in winter

 

Now THAT shit is hard!

[specialed]

Hardman implies suffering, potential death, and sustained endurance. Crag climbs, stout as they may be, don't include all of these elements.

[mattp]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Peter Puget:

a quick review of climbing history repeatedly shows that the "Rock Jocks" easily move into alpine territory and shred the existing scene. Long Live Rock!

---

That's when they move from (maybe) "hard core" to (maybe) "hard man."

[texplorer]

Thanks for the suggestions. I think being a hardman is truly a matter of perspective. I know the climbers that I admire and aspire to be like. In reality I know I will never probably be a 'hardman' but will be lumped into the world of mediocrity. I am ok with that since I just climb for fun but I do like challenges. I also like to see what it takes to climb harder routes and imagine what it must have been like for the first ascensionists. Livin down here in Oregon you just don't hear about routes that are a little more involved elsewhere. -Carpe Diem

[iain]

You're leading trad at 5.11 these days. Personally I don't find that mediocre.

[Off_White]

TimL said: "Alpine climbing seems to be so the "in" thing on this funny site. And its not that I almost always prefer climbing in the mountains to climbing at the crags, but I think crag pitches should be included. Even bolted crag pitches. I would by far consider some of the harder Index pitches to be hardman test pieces. I would also think that some of the hard bolted pitches at Smith to be hard man routes"

 

I think that if you want to be quintessential NW hardman, you have to think in terms of Alpine. Face it, the cragging here just doesn't rate in terms of the big picture. Would you drive 3000 miles to climb at Index? Me either. Don't get me wrong, I think there is good cragging here, but its not the major component of the vision of NW Climbing, If you're after recognition as a hard sport climber, you go elsewhere to make a name for yourself. Come to think of it, if you're after recognition as an alpine climber, you go elsewhere too. Its not as if Jim Donini made his name on the basis of his regional ascents. Perhaps the quintessential NW hardman is content with obscurity, hence the indifference to the nomenclature.

 

Tex, reading your latest post, you're there already, looking for the next adventure just a little beyond what you can see.

 

DBerdinka's list sure resembles my personal wish list.

 

[ 11-19-2002, 08:43 PM: Message edited by: Off White ]

[TimL]

Basically, what I'm saying is mastering all disciplines of climbing only adds to the resources you can use to style/adapt to any "hardman" climb you might pick.

 

Besides, climbing is fun no matter if you a hard person or not.

 

 

[ 11-19-2002, 08:57 PM: Message edited by: TimL ]

[Peter_Puget]

Ok I admit that my earlier posts on this thread were somewhat smart-alecky in nature but they also held a grain of truth and here is a more serious reply.

 

Quote from Offwhite: "I think that if you want to be quintessential NW hardman, you have to think in terms of Alpine. Face it, the cragging here just doesn't rate in terms of the big picture. Would you drive 3000 miles to climb at Index? Me either. Don't get me wrong, I think there is good cragging here, but its not the major component of the vision of NW Climbing, If you're after recognition as a hard sport climber, you go elsewhere to make a name for yourself. Come to think of it, if you're after recognition as an alpine climber, you go elsewhere too. Its not as if Jim Donini made his name on the basis of his regional ascents. Perhaps the quintessential NW hardman is content with obscurity, hence the indifference to the nomenclature."

 

Oddly in the 80's several of the nations most publicized "rockjocks" did jus that. Namely Hugh Herr flew in from the East Coast, Todd Skinner from Wyoming, Alan Watts drove up from Smith, Russ Clune form (I think at that point) Southern California. In the past a large part of the talent in WA rock climbing left the state for extended periods of time. Think of Dick Cilley, Steve Gerberding, Brooke Sandal or Pat Timson or more recently Mike Schaeffer for example. (for those Canadians we can even add Peter Croft to the mix) I have climbed at some point with all these guys (except Mike) and can say that they are all pretty damn hard. The at least showed me how soft I am. Many of those who remained in the State chose to do their hard climbing out of the state. For example of a local alpinist think of Steve Swensen. This is even true of imports from elsewhere - for example Donini or Grossman.

 

In the Alpine scene many of the modern routes were first ascended during times of deep freezes. In the 80s there several years of settled cold weather. Even I was induced to go out on the ice and once almost convinces to try the Upper Wall Falls. Something I haven't seen really frozen in over a decade. After a very quick review of the CAG I believe that there is a definite correspondence between these cold spells and the first ascent s of these modern alpine routes. Many of those who I remember being really active in WA alpine new routing left the area. Some like Twight aspiring to fame claiming that the difficulties here are weak. Now by weak I mean not up to cutting edge alpinism based on a world view.

 

So if is he isn't cutting edge difficulty or even ability does the NW hardman exist? I say yes. And his/her definig features are can be clearly defined. A NW hardman is an explorer, willing to follow his indiosyncratic notions (often times to the extreme) and is content and happy in doing so. Think back to Beckey, he was not on the cutting edge of climbing for long at all (if ever) yet his insatiable appetite for discovery and climbing has made him the FA king of the 20th century. More recently look at Pete Doorish's adventures in trying to find "big Walls" in WA. While others shook their heads in disbelief he pioneered such celebrated routes such as the Norwegian Buttress or Bear Mountain. I do not believe that these routes are anywhere near as hard as say the Jolly Roger route yet they are quintessential NW hardman routes. And quite amazing in their own right. I think their defining features are not so much in the quality of their climbing but in the quality of the FA.

 

Now how does this relate to the thread in question? I would say that the NW hardman tick list cannot be comprised of existing routes. It can only be created by the individual as he/she follows his/her own bliss in a series of exploration and discovery.

[eric8]

nicely said

[leejams]

Can't believe this character has not been metioned as the hardest of the hardmen.

 

http://www.cascadeclimbers.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=4;t=000193

[Alpine_Tom]

I think Billygoat’s right on; it’s time to get past Twight. How about doing Nooksak Tower in a day on Saturday, so you can get home in time for church Sunday morning?

 

Has anyone repeated the N. Face of Little Tahoma? That might qualify.

[Dru]

Its funny, the mtn faces of the PNW are among the biggest in the lower 48 (esp. compared to Colorado chosspiles) yet get bagged on by most - worse access than Colorado/Utah, not as much quality rock as Sierras. YET, large faces of poor rock are what MAKES most alpine hardmen. Look at the Euro dudes like the Poles and Slovenians.

 

Steve House "What is really needed to get good at hard alpine climbing is lots of terrain in the 5.8, WI4 range to practice moving fast on" {paraphrase} thats exactly what PNW has so much of.

 

In alpine climbing, choss is good, but you'd never know it from reading the mags. Yosemite has fostetred a mindset in American climbning that good climbing requires good rock, which is total BS.

 

In fact many of my favorite memories of alpine routes are of dealing with choss. Admittedly I would not want to crag on it but in the mtns it is just one added technical factor.

[specialed]

I've climbed in nearly every range in the country and non-prejudicially the PNW is the most spectacular, unique, and challenging. There's no glacier approaches in the Sierra and the Colorado Rockies and its not as remote or as beautiful. Between Washington and BC there is the best alpine granite in the country. Yeah there's lots of alpine choss but there's also better rock here than in the Sierras. Granted its not the best ice climbing, there's few Yosemite style big walls, and its not as big as the Himalaya but it kicks ass for having in your own back yard.

 

[ 11-21-2002, 11:56 AM: Message edited by: specialed ]

[iain]

rock in oregon is bomber too, just remember your alpine SwingLine and you're good to go.

[Dru]

Fine Coast Range choss

 

 

Next post should be a snafflehound!

[Dru]

[sk]

those snaffles must be bussy little fuckers they seem to be over running ths BBS

[Dru]

we better get a cat.

[sk]

better make it a couger