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johndavidjr

Mammut slings question

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I just bought a couple of these this weekend without examining them or thinking about it much. They're half the width of my other slings, which are spectra. I think Mammut calls this stuff dyneema. WTF is that and are these slings as strong as standard (I threw away the packaging). They're great for racking sanity and they're very light.

I'd like to ditch all my others and replace them with this stuff.

--John

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I have a number of these now. I suppose I believe the hype (box specs) but I try to fall less since they look like they will just snap.

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So has anyone been using these dyneema slings long enough to comment on their abrasion resistance? I'd hazard to guess they would cut more easily over an edge, but maybe not.

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I believe that the bartacking on any sling is the weakest part. Mammut weaves the bartacked section wider than the rest, hence, the rest of the sling can be skinny. I really like mine, and if Mammut says they're rated to 22kN, I tend to believe them. thumbs_up.gif

 

And yes, they're Spectra. wave.gif

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I have some of the 8mm version of these.

 

Spectra and Dyneema are trade names for the same material, a high-performance polyethylene. Allied Signal makes spectra, while a dutch company DSM makes dyneema. Other than the proprietary names, they are the same.

 

The Mammut ones I have are both wider at the bartacking as well as covered with a label/sheath at that point. I do notice that they are "fuzzing" up pretty quickly. The ones I have are double length for "alpine draw" applications and they are very well suited for it being so skinny.

 

I know they make 8mm versions which I think only became available in the last year or so. There are also 11mm version. They claim the same rating on both, so who knows.

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I have these (skinny 8mm) and have been using them a ton since this spring...I threw away the first two i bought due to abrasion in the bar tacking area...this is raised 3 dimensionally and seems to really get abraded, specifically the stitching itself is vulnerable. The rest of them, i wrapped some climbing tape over the stitching and this seems to be doing the trick...

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So, I got a request from one of the shops in Seattle to give you guys the official word on these skinny slings from Mammut. A couple of years ago, someone at Mammut realized that the colored thread, made of nylon, serves really only two purposes. One is to give the slings color and the other is to increase the surface contact, or friction, between the sling and the bartacks. The nylon thread in the sling doesn't add to the strength because the breaking strength of nylon can be up to 40% lower than spectra. So, if you remove some of the nylon but keep the same amount of spectra, you can maintain a 22kn breaking strength while decreasing the width of the sling. However, since you are removing some of the nylon, there won't be as much friction between the sling and the bar tacks. So, to work around this the sling is widend at one end and the other end is tucked inside. Then it is bartacked through all of the layers. This helps to hold the ends of the sling against each other. In other words, a traditional sling has one end bartacked on top of the other end. In a pull test, as the breaking strength is approached, one end of the sling usually starts to peel away from the other end. Stuffing one end into the other prevents this from happening. Hopefully, this makes sense. If not, you can make up your own stories about how this sewing method works. They are as strong as other spectra slings. As for the fuzzing up issue, I don't think they fuzz up any more than any other spectra sling. It is just more noticeable since the spectra to nylon content is higher than in other spectra slings. They are meant to be light and lower bulk. If you want more durable slings buy nylon.

 

There. How's that, Mike?

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It would be cool to have a sport harness made out of these mammut slings--except only have it flare out under the thighs and behind the back for comfort. Imagine having a 3 ounce harness. Harnesses are heavier and more restictive then they used to be. I think Edlinger wore something like a 6 ouncer?

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It would be cool to have a sport harness made out of these mammut slings--except only have it flare out under the thighs and behind the back for comfort. Imagine having a 3 ounce harness. Harnesses are heavier and more restictive then they used to be. I think Edlinger wore something like a 6 ouncer?

 

They do have them and they are one of the most uncomfortable harness you ever put on I think Mammut makes them

IMHO if you really want light harness make it from sling or lenght webbing that you carry on rout anyway

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I have the Mammut Alpine light harness. It rules. You can buy it at Uhartrescue.com.

It's not made of the method Jens explained, but is an awsome alpine harness ( one of the lightest) superior to the BD Alpine Bod. Takes up very little room and very easy to use and is functional.

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Mine have been pretty worked on multiple alpine routes, frozen overnight on glaciers, and fallen on. Seem to be holding up just fine.

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Mammut rep,

 

Is it okay to mark the slings on the black sleeve that protects the stitching with something like nail polish (which is common for carabiner marking)? The sleeve will soak the polish and its solvent initially, and that's what I'm wondering about (since it may get on the sling underneath). I did mark a few slings like that before switching to sewing a bit of thread on the side of the sleeve instead (doesn't go through the sling; thanks fenderfour for the idea), and wonder what to do with them. If there's a risk of them not being full strength anymore, I may save them for setting topropes at Exit 38 for my kids, who weigh 50 lbs and shouldn't put much stress on them; or ditch them if it's really risky.

 

drC

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I have no idea if it is safe to mark your slings that way. In fact, I don't think I've ever seen anyone mark their slings before. I would say don't do it.

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Polyethylene has better chemical resistance than nylon. Getting anything to stick would be the biggest problem. If in doubt, just use electrical tape to mark your slings.

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It would be cool to have a sport harness made out of these mammut slings--except only have it flare out under the thighs and behind the back for comfort. Imagine having a 3 ounce harness. Harnesses are heavier and more restictive then they used to be. I think Edlinger wore something like a 6 ouncer?

 

if the only thing holding you back from a successful redpoint is the weight of your harness, you are just weak. boxing_smiley.gif

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So, I got a request from one of the shops in Seattle to give you guys the official word on these skinny slings from Mammut. A couple of years ago, someone at Mammut realized that the colored thread, made of nylon, serves really only two purposes. One is to give the slings color and the other is to increase the surface contact, or friction, between the sling and the bartacks. The nylon thread in the sling doesn't add to the strength because the breaking strength of nylon can be up to 40% lower than spectra. So, if you remove some of the nylon but keep the same amount of spectra, you can maintain a 22kn breaking strength while decreasing the width of the sling. However, since you are removing some of the nylon, there won't be as much friction between the sling and the bar tacks. So, to work around this the sling is widend at one end and the other end is tucked inside. Then it is bartacked through all of the layers. This helps to hold the ends of the sling against each other. In other words, a traditional sling has one end bartacked on top of the other end. In a pull test, as the breaking strength is approached, one end of the sling usually starts to peel away from the other end. Stuffing one end into the other prevents this from happening. Hopefully, this makes sense. If not, you can make up your own stories about how this sewing method works. They are as strong as other spectra slings. As for the fuzzing up issue, I don't think they fuzz up any more than any other spectra sling. It is just more noticeable since the spectra to nylon content is higher than in other spectra slings. They are meant to be light and lower bulk. If you want more durable slings buy nylon.

 

There. How's that, Mike?

 

To ressurect an old old post, who knows if mammut_rep is still around... but I have some more info...

 

Based on some information I found on various websites, Spectra and Dyneema are both HPPE, but they are not the same. The difference lies in the fiber size. Dyneema has finer fibers than Specta. Kiteboarders use Spectra and Dyneema kite lines for their high strength, low creep, and slipperyness (compared to rough Kevlar lines, the slippery HPPE does not cause abrasive cutting forces when lines cross). But it turns out that Spectra kite lines last longer than Dyneema ones, because the individual fibers are thicker and therefore they don't fuzz up and lose strength as quickly. That made me think about my climbing slings - I do notice the same effect there. On my old BD slings, I see a few loose Spectra fibers poking out, but the slings are generally in pretty good shape after years of use. My newer Mammut slings get fuzzy much more quickly, and I can see the fibers are a lot finer than the Spectra ones. It seems that small, sharp crystals in the rock catch on the fibers when they rub across the sling, and they're more likely to break the small Dyneema fibers than the thicker Spectra fibers. I still love my Mammut slings 'cause they're so light and easy to deal with, and I will continue to buy them, but I have a strong suspicion that they lose their strength much faster than the Spectra ones, and I'll definitely retire them after less time.

 

It is also interesting to note that Spectra and Dyneema are much more resistant to UV than Nylon. So if you need to rely on a sling that's been out in the sun for a while, go with the HPPE one. However, the melting point is much lower than Nylon. HPPE begins to lose strength at temperatures in the low 200's. So anything that causes friction against the sling can exceed this fairly quickly.

 

Dan

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