Hikers, cougars, & guns

[cracked]

Need gun to protect against vicious s!!!!1

[foraker]

bear spray = ursine tabasco sauce. you're supposed to spray it on yourself before the bear eats you just to 'kick it up a notch!'

[shapp]

Always pack a gun when we go to remote areas in Alaska. All of my wifes family lives all over up there. Many live in remote areas and have guns in there living room read to use since there are a lot of Grizz and also moose can actually be a sevre problem. My wife has a ton of stories about moose problems on her walk to the school bus stop. Guns are tools that can also be deadly. A gun used by a compentent person and stored properly is not a danger. In my own personal experience I know a few people accidently killed by gun fire, and a whole bunch of people killed in car wrecks by drunk drivers.

[Jason_Martin]

I used to do fish habitat surveys on remote creeks in Alaska when the salmon were running. On an average day we saw anywhere from one to five bears. On our survey team we carried one gun and everybody carried bear spray.

 

However, in the hundreds of bears we were around over the years not one attacked or charged. You got the feeling that both the gun and the bear spray were there simply to make you feel safer, the reality being that if one of those monsters came flying out of the woods and began to maul you, neither the gun nor the bear spray would do much.

 

Over time we became comfortable in these animals environment. We weren't exactly pushing the limit like that bear researcher that recently got killed. Usually as soon as we saw a bear we would yell at it and inevitably it would jump out of the creek and run up into the woods until you passed by.

 

Would I travel in that environment without a gun? Sure, but I probably wouldn't leave the bear spray at home.

 

In the northwest, particularly in Oregon, Washington, and Southern B.C. it really is overkill to carry a gun. The amount of incidents listed in a previous post doesn't reinforce the case that one should worry about wild animals. Instead, because there were so few incidents it seems to indicate that carrying a firearm is nothing more than a nusiance in the northwest that could accidentially cause bodily harm to oneself or one's friends.

 

A week or so ago I saw a guy hiking up above the coleman glacier on Mount Baker on Heliotrope ridge. The guy was shirtless and in cutoff shorts. On his hip he carried both a large hunting knife and a pistol of some sort. Instead of looking like a competent hiker, able to take care of himself in the extremely unlikely event of a wild animal attack, he looked like a lunatic...

 

The places that most of us visit in the northwest have many many dangers aside from bears and cougars. The average guy who thinks he can tame nature with a firearm would probably do better leaving the gun at home and bringing a rain jacket or some other piece of real survival equipment.

 

Jason

[Bug]

Do you have any little kids? Do you take them into that kind of environment? If you had to take them there, would you carry a gun?

A loud pop is a good thing.

[Greg_W]

A week or so ago I saw a guy hiking up above the coleman glacier on Mount Baker on Heliotrope ridge. The guy was shirtless and in cutoff shorts. On his hip he carried both a large hunting knife and a pistol of some sort. Instead of looking like a competent hiker, able to take care of himself in the extremely unlikely event of a wild animal attack, he looked like a lunatic...

 

That was me...what are you saying?

[badvoodoo]

A week or so ago I saw a guy hiking up above the coleman glacier on Mount Baker on Heliotrope ridge. The guy was shirtless and in cutoff shorts. On his hip he carried both a large hunting knife and a pistol of some sort. Instead of looking like a competent hiker, able to take care of himself in the extremely unlikely event of a wild animal attack, he looked like a lunatic...

 

That was me...what are you saying?

 

Say Greg, didn't I see you on TV the other day?....

 

[Jason_Martin]

I wouldn't take little kids into the Alaska wilds or anywhere near a backcountry salmon-choked stream. However, I would take little kids hiking in the cascades without a firearm. The vast majority of the people you see with kids in the northwest hiking, are not carrying firearms.

 

In the Northwest, there are a lot more gun injuries and fatalities than evidence that guns saved someone from a wild animal. I'm not saying that you, Bug, are an irresponsible gun owner. But there are a lot of them out there, and many of them have only the faintest idea of how to take care of themselves in the backcountry.

 

Another annecdote about my years as a fish habitat surveyer.

 

We were down in a creek bed in Northern Idaho, a place with A LOT of guns and a lot of lunatics as well. In any case somebody shot toward us from the woods above. We started yelling that we were people until we heard some idiot yell, "sorry."

 

Most of the places we hike and climb in the northwest are bereft of animals that want to mess with a person. I worry a lot about people either killing an animal that was not a threat -- something else I witnessed in Alaska -- or injuring or killing another person on accident. The cascades are full of people and there is almost no evidence to support the need for a firearm in them...

 

Jason

[billcoe]

you don't need to carry a gun.

 

 

To carry or not to carry, that is the question.

 

What I learned is that if you draw down on a Cougar they obviously will recognise the caliber of the weapon and back the hell off. So, the moral that is bigger IS better!

 

My feeling is that any sane cougar would back off when eyeing my rolling bulk, and would halt in its tracks, knowing instinctively that it wouldn't have a chance in hell of dragging me off. So no need for me to carry.

 

Hmmmm, unless the same cougar was thinking...."Hmmmm , my family and I could live off of that lard-ass for at least a summer or 3". Hmmmm - better carry I guess.

 

I'm undecided about the carring thing, maybe I should just lose some weight.

 

Yeah, that would help.

Edited July 2, 2004 by billcoe

[cracked]

The smell of my socks alone will drive off any grizzly or cougar within 50 miles or so.

[cj001f]

The smell of my socks alone will drive off any grizzly or cougar within 50 miles or so.

Bottle that stuff and sell it to REI as bear repellent!

[Figger_Eight]

Seriously, the gun was completely irrelevant in this guy's encounter. Some pretty lame newsmaking skills I must say. The only thing that article says to me is: you don't need to carry a gun.

 

Pretty much.

[RuMR]

Why is this even in the CLIMBING forum??

[cracked]

Because my socks drive away sport climbers, as well!

[ashw_justin]

If I was seriously afraid of being pounced on by cougars on the trail I'd wear a chainmail neck sheath, wolverine-style steel knuckles, and a bladed helmet. That's right, I'm about to get D&D on yo ass!

[thrutch]

everytime i see greg post on gun issues, the uncle from menace to society pops in my head. the part where he is lecturing odog and (the other dude who i forget the name of) and the rest of the boyz that guns are bad and they kill people.

[ashw_justin]

"Who wants some muthaf*ckin' cheezburgas?"

[wally]

All bears like a little pepper on their meat

[Off_White]

Yeah, what was that story.... City slicker heading into the Alaskan bush, takes the pilot aside and asks him what he thinks about his small caliber rifle for dealing with the bears. Pilot says, "Ayup, it maybe, but if I were you I'd file that sight off." City boy asks, "Why should I do that?" The bush veteran replies, "So it won't hurt so much when that bear shoves it up your ass."

[Scott_J]

A week or so ago I saw a guy hiking up above the coleman glacier on Mount Baker on Heliotrope ridge. The guy was shirtless and in cutoff shorts. On his hip he carried both a large hunting knife and a pistol of some sort. Instead of looking like a competent hiker, able to take care of himself in the extremely unlikely event of a wild animal attack, he looked like a lunatic...

 

That was me...what are you saying?

 

Say Greg, didn't I see you on TV the other day?....

 

 

Hey, Greg, nice shorts. Are those the ones you wore when we went fishin'? Guns, rock and roll and bad ass shit hahahaha. fuckin NW pussies. Glad I am leavin' and I WON'T LET THE DOOR HIT ME IN THE ASS ON THE WAY OUT. hahahaha

[lancegranite]

I believe people are getting mixed up here...

Bears are mostly peaceful animals, even the grizz.

Having grown up on the frontier, I've seen em...11 summers in Alaska

Cougars are a totally different story.

They are a predator, who will stalk and kill large game.

 

After the dog pursuit law was repealed, the cougar population exploded, the deer population plummeted and housewives everywhere started finding the big cats in their backyards.(or in our case, the driveway)

Dogs and cats dissappeared (we lost 2 in one weekend)

And people started getting attacked. (my wife was stalked for 2 miles by a cougar,... in Bellingham)

 

Please don't mistake bears and cougars, they are as different as dogs and cats.

[Bill_Simpkins]

When I am hiking through the woods alone on an approach, I sometimes have my ice axe out.

I tap it on an occasional rock or tree to let the critters know I'm there.

 

On another note: I went to Alaska a few times when I was a kid. We used to hear bear and moose walking though our camps. Even under such situations, I used to walk to the outhouse by myself. My father didn't teach us to hurt the animals, more of how to deal with them. He has ran into many a critter, face to face, with no problems. He is 70 now, and has probably had at least 50 face to face encounters, including with cougers, without problems.

 

Yes, bears and cougers are very different.

Bears are territorial.

Cougers hunt.

[Bug]

A hungry bear has a larger territory and a broader range of appetizers. Long dry years force the bears to forage further and get more aggressive about their territorial rights.

[Billygoat]

Guns are aid

 

I can't think of any better way to go. I like the idea of my bones bleaching in the sun along the spine of some ridge.

[Norman_Clyde]

I read one book, part of which dealt with tiger attacks in India, which said that attacks declined dramatically when the people who had to walk through tiger territory began putting masks on the back of their heads. As ridiculous as this sounds, I bet it would be one of the most effective means of reducing attack risk from behind-- on the unaware, at least.

 

I myself sometimes like to run through the woods, though I sometimes wonder if this is overly foolish, since there is no way I can keep the same attentiveness to my surroundings while running.