Snowmobile in a crevasse on Baker

[MrDoolittle]

There's also an unrecovered body under one of those snowmobiles up there from about four years ago. Punched through, couldn't find him. Family was having a great time in the parking lot...

[mattp]

We have this rant about snowmobiles on Mount Baker every year on this bulletin board. In my view, you should simply go somewhere else if snowmobilers really offend you all that much. That pie-shaped slice of Mount Baker is the only glaciated alpine area in the State where they are allowed to go. Occasionally one of them violates the boundary and rides to the true summit or over on the Coleman, but I bet you'll never see them on the Boulder Glacier or any one of the other dozen glaciers on the mountain. And then there are about 500 other glaciated peaks in the state.

 

 

Yes, they are noisy and smelly machines. The guys who I've met and talked to on the Easton Glacier, though, are not a bunch of beer-swilling metal heads; they are much closer to us mountain climbers than some of you realize. And most of them try to show some consideration for skiers and climbers who may be on the mountain at the same time. How many of you better-than-them ski mountaineers will show any consideration for them?

[JoshK]

Consideration aside, there is the simply fact that our activities (for the most part) do not infringe on, or effect the experience of others. No matter how hard you try to argue it a skier skinning up or skiing down a slope 200 meters from you doesnt have any effect on your experience. A loud ass smelly, obnoxious, polluting machine, on the other hand, does. They can be 1/2 a mile away and your experience will be effected by them.

 

Yes, there are plenty of other places to go, I agree, but snowmobiles have no place in the alpine...none. Forest roads are one thing but the "recreation area" on mt. baker is just silly.

 

This isn't even addressing the fact that one machine lunched into a crevasse puts more trach into the glacier then 1000 years worth of climbers.

[cracked]

Consideration aside, there is the simply fact that our activities (for the most part) do not infringe on, or effect the experience of others. No matter how hard you try to argue it a skier skinning up or skiing down a slope 200 meters from you doesnt have any effect on your experience. A loud ass smelly, obnoxious, polluting machine, on the other hand, does. They can be 1/2 a mile away and your experience will be effected by them.

 

Yes, there are plenty of other places to go, I agree, but snowmobiles have no place in the alpine...none. Forest roads are one thing but the "recreation area" on mt. baker is just silly.

 

This isn't even addressing the fact that one machine lunched into a crevasse puts more trach into the glacier then 1000 years worth of climbers.

 

I wouldn't mind them nearly as much if they weren't so noisy...all it takes is 4 stroke engines. But the sled heads like them loud.

[Bug]

I like the Yellowstone approach. Pull your service revolver and shoot em between the pistons.

[fenderfour]

The guys who I've met and talked to on the Easton Glacier, though, are not a bunch of beer-swilling metal heads; they are much closer to us mountain climbers than some of you realize.

 

Some of us mountain climbers are beer swilling metal heads. GregW - any comments?

[Loose_Brie]

I didn't see any Trip Reports! Can you drive (by car) to the trailhead at Schriebers Meadow already? ...or close? How was the climb? Did you go up Railroad Grade or Sulphur Moraine?

 

OK, the road was blocked about 2 miles from the parking lot. But melting fast. It may be clear by the weekend. The route is in prime shape. We didn't bother roping up. Things were melting out fast though. Nothing seemed to be opening up yet. We skied off the railroad grade and all of us let off little sluff avalanches. As few freeze thaw cycles and the wet snoe should turn to prime corn.

[dberdinka]

One of my first trips to the Easton Glacier Area put me firmly in the BAN-SNOWMOBILERS-MINDSET!!!!!!!

 

It was late spring, and snow cover in Schreiber Meadows was not continuous. Yet nothing was going to stop the 'bilers from getting to there little slice of snowmobile nirvana.

 

I watched several machines tear up portions of the recently snow free meadows, observed lots of damage in other sections of meadows and saw plenty of trash and oil-slicks in the water. Not to mention the incesant buzzzz once we got above treeline.

 

Given the choice of tearing up 100 feet of meadow to get to the goods or packing it up and going home, it was quite obvious what choice all those 'bilers were making. In a few seconds one of those machines can do more damage to the alpine and sub-alpine enviroments than my boots will produce in a lifetime.

 

Stereotypes exist for a reason and I am not at all convinced that many snowmobilers are anything like us. My experiences in Schriebers Meadow show a complete lack of respect for the natural enviroment. Considering the ease with which some jackass can get on their sled and thrash an area and the complete lack of self-policing (or any policing for that matter) 'bilers should simply not be allowed access to a sensitive, and still somewhat pristine alpine/sub-alpine area.

[Dustin_B]

I have to say I agree with JoshK and dberdinka. Bilers definitely do more damage in one trip than a climber can do in a lifetime, especially when they leave their sled *in* the mountain. I've only been on the Easton twice the first time the snowmobilers where anything but considerate (that is a laughable comment in my experience). Riding (no reving/gunning engines) very close to camp, all hours of the evening, etc. The other time it was too late in the season and there were no bilers (what a difference). I suppose its like anything else where one bad apple/experience spoils the whole bunch, but my opinion of snowmobilers went way down after that. We got some satisfaction though on the way out when a snow bridge over a creek broke and the sled went in the drink.

 

So now I just choose to take MattP's advice and not go on the Easton until after the bilers are gone, its not worth it to me.

[cracked]

I've seen stuff like Dberdinka describes last year at Stuart, in May. They just tore the hell out of the trail where there was no snow.

[mattp]

I'd have to say that I agree with JoshK and DBerdinka too. Recreational snowmobilng is an abomination, to be sure. However, I'm just noting that they ARE limited to one side of one glaciated mountain in the entire state, and that in fact we climbers are not necessarily more environmentally oriented. Yes, our hiking boots do not tear up the meadows as badly as a snowmobile tread - but some of us think nothing of destroying vegetation that gets in our way, moving boulders and cutting down trees to make staging areas or "landing zones," littering red bull cans and tape and chalk all over the place, and driving a thousand miles in some gas guzzling menace just to tick one of the routes in Fifty Classic Climbs. Our sport does do less damage to the environment and may even be less impactful both on other users and the environment than snowmobiling, horespacking, hunting and fishing, but we are not without our own impacts.

[minx]

matt you make an excellent point....

h/e i think the major difference is the emphasis the 2 sports place on awareness of environmental impact. i know very few climbers who don't respect erosion control boundaries at crags, closures for raptor nesting, staying on maintained trails when possible, carpooling to the destination, trail maintenance activities etc. that's not to say there aren't some that don't pay attention to these things but there's an emphasis on good environmental behaviour. i don't see the same sort of thing from the snowmobile group. just an observation but it's one i've made repeatedly.

[JoshK]

You definitely make a point Matt, there are certainly climbers/hikers/backpackers who do damage to the environment as well. I think of one particular case when I saw these 5 jackasses playing frisbee in spider meadow last spring. The snow had mostly melted out and they were running over all the recently exposed flora while tossing the frisbee around. I don't know how many of you have seen spider meadow when it blooms but it's simply breathtaking. There are several signs telling people to stay the hell on the trail and not walk into the meadow because tramping over stuff, even before it blooms will kill the plantlife. Looking back, I really should have said something to those people. As I did I silently walked by wanting to punch them and shaking my head.

 

Overall, however, I believe the percentage of environmentally respectful snowmobilers is a great deal lower than environmentally respectful climbers or hikers. I'm not sure if this is a good example, but take the trail into colchuck lake or snow lakes during the winter. I have to imagine these two get the heaviest traffic of any local trails during winter. In all my times going up either in the winter I have seen maybe one or two pieces of trash. Now, areas where snowmobiles are allowed, on the other hand, I have found oil cans, trash, beer bottles, broken snow-mo parts and, my personal favorite, bloody rags. This doesn't even address one of my original points, which is their effect on others. I may see 50 other snowshoers or skiers on the snow lakes trail but I can still enjoy myself. Doing that in a snowmobile area is next to impossible.

Edited April 13, 2004 by JoshK

[Alpine_Tom]

My snowmobile story:

I was coming back from eastern Wash. after new years with my son, on I-90. Near the summit of Snoqualmie, he had to go to the bathroom bad. At the exit there was a sign pointing to the "Iron Horse Trail" parking, and I figured there'd be bathrooms there. Somehow I made a wrong turn, got onto a road in the snow, and got stuck (in my little ol' Escort wagon.)

This was evidently right next to a snowmobile haven, and snowmobilers were ripping by me so close, as I was trying to dig the tire out, that I thought they'd run over my legs. A couple paused and asked "stuck in the snow?" "Yeah." and they'd just gun right past.

Finally a guy stopped and said "need a hand?" and it took us about five seconds to get the car back on the hardpack snow.

 

If this had been a climbing area, the problem would have been all the climbers would be getting in the way offering to help, push, get their trucks with their winches... but the sledders have to keep their tachs redlined.

[Scott_J]

We have this rant about snowmobiles on Mount Baker every year on this bulletin board. In my view, you should simply go somewhere else if snowmobilers really offend you all that much. That pie-shaped slice of Mount Baker is the only glaciated alpine area in the State where they are allowed to go. Occasionally one of them violates the boundary and rides to the true summit or over on the Coleman, but I bet you'll never see them on the Boulder Glacier or any one of the other dozen glaciers on the mountain. And then there are about 500 other glaciated peaks in the state.

 

 

Yes, they are noisy and smelly machines. The guys who I've met and talked to on the Easton Glacier, though, are not a bunch of beer-swilling metal heads; they are much closer to us mountain climbers than some of you realize. And most of them try to show some consideration for skiers and climbers who may be on the mountain at the same time. How many of you better-than-them ski mountaineers will show any consideration for them?

 

And that is a BIG AMEN. Thanks Matt P.

I don't own a sno-go anymore but they are great for touring, getting into ice climbs that are far and removed from the beaten trail, great for pulling meat out from a winter bou hunt, fun to pull the kiddies behind on their snow boards, go ice fishing with them. Shit there is a ton of stuff to do with a sno-go. And I still back country ski, skinny ski, etc. I like sno-gos, 4 Wheelers, mules, tail draggers with tundra wheels, river sleds, catarafts, kayaks,etc. Shit I guess I just like toys.

[barkernews]

What about Mt St Helens? Whats up with the bilers riding up to the summit there? Is that legal. Kinda destroys the experience...

[iain]

What about Mt St Helens? Whats up with the bilers riding up to the summit there? Is that legal. Kinda destroys the experience...

 

can I nominate this for best cc.com troll?

[swaterfall]

I thought that St Helens was preserved as a research site and therefore off limits to every one except permitted climbers.

[fastcj]

Unfortunately, I don't think we'll have to wait hundreds of years to see all those snow machines -- and for that matter, climbers' poops -- because it's very unlikely that there will be anything but small remnants of any glaciers in the lower 48 by the year 2050.

[pdr4207]

I was the skier involved in the rescue. My ski partner, Monika, and I posted a report on TAY providing more information about the incident. http://www.turns-all-year.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=tr0404;action=display;num=1082045060

 

The guy was very lucky.

[Squid]

Unfortunately, I don't think we'll have to wait hundreds of years to see all those snow machines -- and for that matter, climbers' poops -- because it's very unlikely that there will be anything but small remnants of any glaciers in the lower 48 by the year 2050.

 

Yeach!

 

I hadn't thought of the poop-consequences of global warming - a 20 ton mound of shit slowly sliding toward Panorama Point.

 

Climb 'em while you can, kids!

[Dru]

once the glaciers are gone the volcanoes will be shitpiles irrespective of how much human excrement is on them. and - will not be able to call them "technical glaciated volcanoes" or whatever anymore.

[Pandora]

once the glaciers are gone the volcanoes will be shitpiles irrespective of how much human excrement is on them. and - will not be able to call them "technical glaciated volcanoes" or whatever anymore.

 

True. But do you really think that will stop him?

[JoshK]

Technical choss ascensionist.

 

Also, random - thought...supposedly he trains all the time on hood, yeah? And we get ho many people on this board climbing hood, not to mention the other volcanoes, weekly? A lot, eh? I wonder what the chances would be that not one person from around here has seen the shitbag up there yet.

[Dru]

why - and dog were witnessed just last week! see oregon forum!