aggro mountain goats

[todd]

anyone ever heard of mountain goats attacking climbers? ive had three very close encounters with them - once in the cascades and twice in RMNP - they didnt attack, but got damn aggressive with us and i wouldnt have been surprised if they did. any stories where theyve actually kicked/nudged/butted someone? please share any stories you have concerning aggressive mountain goats - id love to learn from your experiences too.

[rayborbon]

I want to shoot these beasts off the crags... They are not aggressive to me just not scared of humans. Which is a major source of salt and food....

[Country_Jake]

none with mountain goats, But I had a Ram (big horned sheep) chase me on a narrow trail in the easter section of the goarge... ... He chased me just far enough to feel like he had won, and then went about his way... i just let him past... and then finished my hike...

[Bronco]

I thought it would be cute to sneak up on a small herd near Naches once. Till they spotted me and came closer.

[CleeshterFeeshter]

Goats have a predator response (if they have not been neutered). When they see you from a distance- they will make eye contact and approach head first maintianing eye contact. Lions and tigers and bears,oh my, typically find this very disconcerting and do not screw with a healthy billy. Just do not antagonize them or act agressive and they will typically leave you alone.

[erik]

quote:

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Originally posted by CleeshterFeeshter:

Goats have a predator response (if they have not been neutered). When they see you from a distance- they will make eye contact and approach head first maintianing eye contact. Lions and tigers and bears,oh my, typically find this very disconcerting and do not screw with a healthy billy. Just do not antagonize them or act agressive and they will typically leave you alone.

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CLEESTHER KNOWS...he is married to two of them.......

[David_Parker]

My goat story was at Lake Constance in the Olympics. We had set up our tent near the shore and this one particular goat was keen on eating my teeshirt that was hanging on a limb. He also ate my chums (fortunately not my sunglasses). Not satiated, he decided there must be more inside the tent. He relentlessly pawed around the campsite and I kept yelling (get outta here!) I resorted to throwing rocks at him. He'd wonder off a little but kept coming back. I dosed off, only to awaken with his head completely in the tent! I got bigger rocks.

Goats are NOT native to the Olympic Penninsula. They were introduced by man and the quantities now are causeing severe damage to the alpine ecosystem. (If you pee, do it on a rock, not in the dirt). Ironically, the greywolf was indiginous to the Olympic Penninsula, but has disappeared. They have tried various (expensive) methods to reduce the number of goats, but it has been ineffective. DUH!!!, Bring back the greywolf!!!!!!!

[ 03-25-2002: Message edited by: David Parker ]

[AlpineK]

Most eco kooks don't understand how many animals and plants need to be killed.

[todd]

well said alpine k, well said!

[nolanr]

I haven't seen goats get aggressive, but they were probably just getting bored and restless waiting for you to piss. Spent a night just below Goat Pass on Stuart (how appropriately named), and a pair of goats kept walking by every several hours. "Come on, come on, don't you guys have to pee again? Cuz we really want some salt."

[Craftmatic]

quote:

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Originally posted by David Parker:

Goats are NOT native to the Olympic Penninsula. They were introduced by man and the quantities now are causeing severe damage to the alpine ecosystem. [ 03-25-2002: Message edited by: David Parker ]

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Me no eco-biologist, but exactly how did it come to pass that somebody "artificially" introduced goats into the Olympic Peninsula? It's not like they were inadvertently carried into the eco system on somebody's clothing.

[nolanr]

Yeah, um, mountain goat spores, they're kinda like burrs. You have to check your clothes and your shoe laces for them constantly, or you'll end up artificially introducing them to all kinds of ecosystems.

[lizard_brain]

We bivvied at 6500' on the north ridge of Stuart, and the goats kept walking around us. They also knocked a rock or two from above, but they were a minor distraction compared to those goddam snafflehounds. Those little bastards were relentless. It got to the point where I was sitting in my bivy bag with my ice-axe in my hand just waiting for the little rats to come back. Woke up my partners sparkin' off the rocks with my axe. I'm not sleeping on that route again.

(Yeah, I know, it's their home.)

[ 03-25-2002: Message edited by: lizard brain ]

[genepires]

The goats have only been good to me. We were wandering around in the canadian rockies, trying to get up perrin ridge on mt whyte, near lake louise. Yeah it is a ridge and how hard could route finding be? Yeah we were lost and confused about it. Then some goats came by and up the ridge, showing the clever path around a big gendarme. Those bro's must have done the route dozens of times even though it is rated 5.6 (canadian rockies).

This one goat was standing on a small ledge looking at the main ledge 8 feet above him. Downclimbing was not an option. Hooves was quaking a little. Then he lept up, did a bad ass mantle move, which was pretty cool cause he didn't/couldn't grab a hand hold above, pushed through, finished, then rejoined the herd snickering at our alpine lameness. I guess we were guided by goats as we followed their scat to the summit.

Kill the goats? No way, follow their tracks to greatness.

[Rockhound]

Had an interesting encounter with a goat in ONP quite a few years ago enroute to the Brothers. Our party of about 4 started up a fairly narrow snow gully only to notice a big guy coming down said gully. The funny thing about it was that he wouldn't let us come up - when we got close, he would lower his horns and mount a small charge.

After a 5 minutes or so of advancing and retreating, we sent one of our own slightly around him while we yelled and got his attention. Our advance scout outflanked him and he gave up, tearing down the hill. Good thing. Our next tactic would have placed fresh meat in camp that night...

Damn nuisances. I can't believe the crap that ONP went thru a few years ago to try to round them up with 'copters, sterilize them, and whatever else. Should have just blown them away.

[AlpineK]

quote:

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Originally posted by Craftmatic:

Me no eco-biologist, but exactly how did it come to pass that somebody "artificially" introduced goats into the Olympic Peninsula? It's not like they were inadvertently carried into the eco system on somebody's clothing.

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I'm no biologist either, but there are many cases of people introducing plant or animal species to a place where they do not belong, and then the species wrecks shit.

English ivy, SeattleScotch broom, west coastgrey squirrels, North AmericaBlackberries, HawaiiRats, Pacific IslandsStarlings, North America

We put em here, so we gotta take em out. kill kill kill.

[David_Parker]

quote:

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Originally posted by Craftmatic:[QB]

Me no eco-biologist, but exactly how did it come to pass that somebody "artificially" introduced goats into the Olympic Peninsula? It's not like they were inadvertently carried into the eco system on somebody's clothing.

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Come to think of it, I don't really know the whole history of the goats being introduced to the Olympics. They may have been introduced as potential game for hunting. Norm Dicks has been trying to pass legislation to get the Grey Wolf back but is meeting severe resistance from the lowland cattle and sheep farmers. I say fuck 'em. Bring the wolves back and restore the natural balance of things. Some people think the wolves will attack their children, but research shows this is highly unlikely. You're more likely to be attacked by a killer whale swimming in the straights of Juan de Fuca!

[ 03-25-2002: Message edited by: David Parker ]

[David_Parker]

Craftmatic, thanks for making me do my research. Seem there is are two sides to this story.

Here are some web sites: Seems there is definitely a controversy here. You decide!

Here's what I have always thought: http://www.olympus.net/personal/cline/goat.html

Some "independent" research: http://www.igc.org/envreview/houston.html

More research: http://www.consbio.org/cbi/what/goat.htm

Pro goats: http://www.sunyit.edu/~millerd1/GOATS.HTM

Let the Wolves do it: http://www.animalpeoplenews.org/97/2/wildlife.html

[Fairweather]

quote:

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Originally posted by Craftmatic:

Me no eco-biologist, but exactly how did it come to pass that somebody "artificially" introduced goats into the Olympic Peninsula? It's not like they were inadvertently carried into the eco system on somebody's clothing.

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They were introduced into the north side of the range in the 1920's. The intent was to provide a trophy hunting enterprise.

"Mountain Goats crave the salts in human urine, as well as in certain salty springs; many Olympic goats are brazen enough to enter camps to eat freshly urine soaked earth. In the process they demolish precious alpine turf, which is slow to heal such scars. To prevent this, urinate only on bare rock or gravel when in likely goat habitat....." from CASCADE OLYMPIC NATURAL HISTORY, by Daniel Mathews.

I once stepped away from my pack to take some pictures while climbing Mount Stone. When I returned a large goat was licking the sweated salt from it. After about 10 minutes I attempted to retake my pack in a casual manner, but Billy would have none of that. He lowered his head and took one step toward me. I got the message, and he finished his treat a few minutes later. I got some great pictures out of the deal and no damage was done to my pack.

[ 03-25-2002: Message edited by: Fairweather ]

[Fairweather]

quote:

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Originally posted by David Parker:

Craftmatic, thanks for making me do my research. Seem there is are two sides to this story.

Here are some web sites: Seems there is definitely a controversy here. You decide!

Here's what I have always thought:

http://www.olympus.net/personal/cline/goat.html

Some "independent" research:

http://www.igc.org/envreview/houston.html

More research:

http://www.consbio.org/cbi/what/goat.htm

Pro goats:

http://www.sunyit.edu/~millerd1/GOATS.HTM

Let the Wolves do it:

http://www.animalpeoplenews.org/97/2/wildlife.html

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David,

Great links! I remember reading accounts of pre-1920's goat sightings, but until your post I could not cite any sources.

They are magnificent animals, and seem to "be at home" in The Olympic Mtns. I wonder if genetic testing could determine if they are well-removed from modern specimens in other ranges from where they were supposedly transplanted.

[ 03-25-2002: Message edited by: Fairweather ]

[kevin_page]

We had a goat kicking down rocks on us while climbing Mt. Pershing in ONP. It really seemed deliberate too. For at least a half of an hour it would appear at some strategic point above and then down would come the rocks. On another trip, which lasted a week, the only people we saw the entire time was a helicopter team attempting to net and air-freight goats out of the park. They'd caused more damage to their landing site/work zone than any herd of goats. So what if the goats trample small areas it is still nothing as compared to human activities.

[Craftmatic]

You live and if all else fails, you learn. Interesting stuff on the goats and ONP.

By the way, is that really true about big horn sheep attacking Gen X'ers for their Mountain Dew. I think I saw that on a hard-core documentary of some sort.

You can never be too careful out there, man.

[al]

"I want to shoot these beasts off the crags... Should have just blown them away. we gotta take em out. kill kill kill"

Sounds like a script from every bad movie I've ever seen.

I say, bring back the wolves. I'd hate to be mistaken by a goat when I turn grey.

[Bug]

Sleeping in grizzly country one night, I heard a set of large lungs approaching the tent. Knowing we had been sloppy, I started reviewing all the tasty foods we had eaten and then wiped on our pants, shirts, or whatever. The lungs got closer. I was hoping it would just take my father who was sleeping beside me but the damn thing came to my side of the tent. It just stood there and taunted me with it's deep breaths. Then I could hear it sniffing at me. I had had enough. By god if that thing was going to eat me it was going to have to fight me! I reached up to the zipper ever so carefully,....... found my knife with my other hand,........screwed up my courage and,.....The rest of this happen in the stretch of 3 or 4 seconds........... ripped the zipper down to the bottom-simultaneously lunging forward and yelling as loudly as I could. I was outside in a flash ready to do mortal combat with the king of all grizzlies but my eyes just weren't picking up much in the moonless darkness. I heard the clatter of hoofs on the rocks beside me and then the sound of my father's fishing reel playing out line like the big one was hooked. Meanwhile, my father, who had been sleeping soundly, woke up, heard the goat and his line and started cussing up a storm.

I won the battle but lost the war. I had to sleep outside the rest of the night.

[Bug]

Oh yeah. Hunters and mountain lions are the most effective form of goat control. Hunting them is not exactly a sport though. Unless you consider hunting cows a sport. MMMMOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! POW! MMMMMMOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! POW! Damn. Got my limit already.