max

Another Access Issue (Actually, just a peeve): I'm cool with what seems to be the WA standard: A ski area has the right to mess with you if you ride their lifts and exit the area w/o some sort of permission. But recently myself and a friend were greeted at the base area of Eldora ski area by a relatively nice area-guy. My friend and I had driven to the ski area, traveled into a basin on public FS trails, come back out of the basin and exited through Eldora. So the guy at the base tells us that in order to ski in the area, you had to buy a ticket, independant you're method of ascent. (So this seems a litle frustrating. It seems like you should be able to operate as an autonamous unit on public land, leased or not). So we said, "Thanks for the info, but it seems like you should post this on the FS trails that lead right onto ski runs!" (we were very polite. Remember: humble and passive behavior can get you out of alot of trouble). He had no responce. He just kept sayibg it over and over and we kept nodding. "Yep, u-hu. Yep. Right. Ok. Later." The whole situation just seemed dumb, primarily because it was (admittedly leased) public land and that we weren't being stupid in their ski area, and that the ski area guy just wouldn't SHUT UP! ok. That was my access gripe.

I'm amazed at the negative responces, and I've no problem with those that disagree. But... I'm assuming the average of the "great"/"sucks" ratings for all the magazines out there must be near "neutral". So it seems that for most magazines out there, most ccc'ers would give ratings somewhere less than "neutral" ("R&I", "Climbing", that brittish-like Brittish magazine ("High"?, "Elevation", "V-something", etc...). Further, if the average rating is to be near "neutral", there must be some "great"'s out there. Any nominations?

quote: Originally posted by crazyjz: Max,Most of them live either 40 minutes west of Denver... Yes, an intersting topic I'd love to pursue, but my weekly allotment of library computer time has expired!

I thumbed an issue of the magazine "Gripped" a few nights ago. I would recommend this magazine to anyone looking for a fresh prespective on the climbing media. This Canadian born publication chooses the diversity of the climbing experience as it centre. The topics, locations, people, and yes, even the advertisments vary more than your standard Boulder ass-wiping material or Brittish scribe records. But this is not just another outlet for wana-be journalism majors/climbing bums (the "wana-be" applies to both studies and non-occupation) expressing their "high climb". Each article has a well defined, well entertained, and interesting perspective. Most artcle come with an appropriate number of colorful photos. Limiting the number of photos increases the remainder's inpact and relavancy. Finally, the publication sells at a competitive rate of C$4.99/US$3.49.

quote: Originally posted by Zenolith: Klenke, ... we need to pretend ...they ["commies"] don't exist anymore. Zenolith: Lucky, this seems to be a reasonable thing to assume. There have never been any communists, at best progressive soscialists. The incorrect tags communist, commie, etc. could best be justified as descriptions of their ultimate objective.

quote: Originally posted by Retrosaurus: I am embarassed about posting here and would be humiliated to be associated with the copious amount of drivel on this site. But I have no self-esteem so it doesn't bother me that much. I think behind the humor in mitches post lies the actaul issue at hand. I think Rod's idea of someone great is someone who doesn't have time/ambition/humility to go to this board. It's like if I was at a mini-golf course and my friend asks me "how come no good golfers show up here?" I point to Woody Woodstick and say "what about woody? He's awesome!" And my freind says "how good can he be? He comes here" So inherent in some people's definition of "great" is "does not post to cc.com" Maybe they just have a bad conscience or feel guilty for posting on cc.com. I know some pretty awesome climbers that post here. And from the way it sounds (maybe it's just spray), quite a few of the regular posters have climbed some pretty sick stuff!

One time, in band camp.. I was mopping up on a fire last year near Chelan. I stopped to take a pee and less than two minutes later I was frantically clawing at my drawers trying to stop whatever was going on down there. Removing my pants and unders, I found the stinger of what I suspect to have been a ground hornet still dangling from the very tip of my weenus. This is all true. Hurt like f**k. And not to get too graffic, but due to the structure of penile tissue, the swelling was actually quite interesting (and disgusting!). That night in the mess tent, I heard some version of the story at nearly every table. I was famous!

This isn't a direct responce to the question posed, but I think it's relevant and I'd like to think it's inbsightful. I had the opportunity to spend a couple of days skiing with two different people. THe first day I went out with this older guy, somebody alot of people would laugh at for being so non-hardcore. But he shredded. He skiied my ass into the grtound, effortlessly. THere were several slopes that we approached and he'd say "yeah, it just looks sketchy. Maybe some other day" and I'd roar and pound my chest and say "lets hit it!" Knowing he had been able to grow old for a reason, I defered to his judgement. We passed those slopes later that day and people had skiied them and they had not slid. Oh well. So a few days later, I went out with my roommate (who always reminds me he got in over a hundered days last year. Oh good.). He hadn't skiied any bc all winter, was fresh off a visiting the relatives, and had to go back to school in two days. We came up on a slope and it had all the bad signs (I'll spare you the spraY) but he still wanted to ski it! So here's my punchline: The difference between these two and what made one safer than the other is that one simply got out more and knew that there'd be another day and another chance to see the suspect slope in good shape. He didn't feel pressure to ski it. The second guy felt like he had to get his shredding in 'cause it's be a while till he got another chance. If you don't get out much, you're not going to be very likely to pass up a slope, even if it's unusually risky. Oh yeah, as a side...About this Freeman fellow: I've met him, and he's the type of guy that when he starts talking, you shut up and listen. Freeman: thanks. [ 01-16-2002: Message edited by: max ]

[ 01-16-2002: Message edited by: max ]

How do you tell if someone's actively writing? [ 01-14-2002: Message edited by: max ]

A serious question (I'm looking for help): How the hell do you keep so up on this damn board? my last post wasn't up but a minute and you had replied. Do you have some sort of "new message" alert? dave

quote: Originally posted by Cpt.Caveman:My Alpine Jerkoff award goes to Lambone. He instantly jumps in and belittles me... Fuck off once again uninstigated bitch. kind of the pot calling the kettle black, huh? [ 01-14-2002: Message edited by: max ]

quote: Originally posted by Cpt.Caveman: Hate to see lads get locked up! who cares if some stupid drunk fuck kills somebody...

Actually, once you explained it, it really is quite funny! the "harvesting" metephore is good!

quote: Originally posted by icegirl: Here here! I didn't get the luxery of learning to ice climb on a TR. It was follow that bad boy or nothing. I'm not sure how following is less of a luxury than tr-ing? The bottom line is they're both "not leading". And does following do any less damagethan tr-ing? It seems one gets just as much enjoyment, takes the same amount of risk, and cause the same amount of damage following as some dude or dudette tr-ing.

OUt of curiousity, where does International Harvester fit into the picture?

Part I: I'll pose a similar question with an obvious answer: Should someone not ski a sweet powder line unless they're going to make awesome turns? The answer is no, it's any bodies line to ski. Myself, I ski like an ostrich so I often offer sweet lines to my more proficient partners. And I think this is how it goes with ice. If you want to not tr for the good of the community, good for you. If you want to tr 'cause you're hankerin' for some ice, your choice. It's not something that can be mandated. Part 2: I bet that if this idea of "don't tr, it ruins it for others" was started or even endorsed by, say, the Mountaineers, all the "hardcores" out there would be telling them "blow off, I'll do what I please". But since the idea started (in my opinion) "inside the circle", people are jumping on the bandwagon to be one of the "in crowd"

I think something to consider is that having big walls, glaciers, ski areas and bc areas, rock and ice nearby doesn't mean it'd be a great place for a climber. Case in point: Boulder CO has all of the above (well, we all know what they call glaciers down here are a joke!), but it's still has some fatal flaws. THey're hard to put your finger on, but generally it revolves around the type of people here. And it can be hard to find people to climb with that you don't want to take off belay mid-pitch! So, another way to put it is even for the "hard core I-don't-care-about-anything-besides-climbing-'cause-I-so-hard" type there are thing to consider besides immediate access.

quote: Originally posted by AlpineK: Plus can you rally put a price on not having a tele stigma?

quote: Originally posted by dberdinka: Like said maybe it's there maybe it's not. If I see it again I'll post. About these mystery flows on the backside of Hemi's: The tour mentioned in my post above took place just over a week ago. I'm not in WA so I don't know what the weathers been like, but it's worth a ski... Darren: what's happening. I talked to Owen a few days ago, trying to set up some bc skiing. Had an excellent day today in 6-9" of LIGHT like a feather powder. CO rocks for bc skiing!

quote: Originally posted by freeclimb9: $400-500 is a lot of money to allow their attachment to a pair of skis. kind of inflated prices, huh? I checked a local high-priced gear store just yesterday and they wanted $230 for the yellow ones... EZ Go's?

On a similarly dog/grusome note... I lived out in the sticks and one spring we had a frantic guy come to our house and ask for help finding his dogs. Turns out he lost control of his dog team. The dogs ran and ran and ran, evntually killing two in the team and injuring several others, one of which had to be put down. The guy was totally broken up about it.

Jay: Nice post, as usual. Several things sruck me while reading you message, and I thought I'd comment. quote: Originally posted by JayB: ...we worked past the assumption that all parties were acting rationally and that everything was under control, and made the decision to get involved. How true. I think it's easy for climbers to assume the people they interact with know what their doing and when there's doubt, it's hard to speak up and voice concerns. It's essentially laying it on the line and saying "hey, I don't think that's right." I guess I'd rather be made a fool and learn something than keep quite and pay the consequences. quote: Originally posted by JayB: What struck me about the whole affair was not that anyone involved in the rescue was incompetent or inept, but just the opposite... How refreshing to hear someone not talking shit about people who regularly save our asses! As you say, sometimes fire/police/EMTs/rescue crew can be out of their element and not perfect, but they sure deserve alot better than the regular trash talk I hear about them. At least their frickin' trying! quote: Originally posted by JayB: What struck me, rather, was that despite the fact that this was essentially roadside ice right in the middle of Vail, with world-class medical facilities just minutes away and dedicated, professional rescue crews on the scene,... The moral? If you sustain a life threatening injury on ice/rock and you and/or your partners can't rescue yourselves, in the words of Simon Yates, "That's it. You're fucked, Matey"; I think this idea of remembering where you are and the potential consequences of injury is something we all have heard, all know about, but regularly ignore! It's good to be reminded of risks. Does this mean I'm not going to do wilderness climbs? No, but it does mean I should get my shit together and do an appropriate first aid course. Am I going stop doing scary scrambles or running it out? Probably not, but I am going to think about what the hell I'm doing and make sure my heads on straight before I do these things. I think alot of people get tired of hearing horror stories. I'd agree that there are much better things to spead time discussing (like Cavey's lace panties). But these incidents are great opportunities to stop and look at what we do and think about the risks we take and if and how we want to minimize them. A parallel: This summer four people were killed while working a fire in the Meathow. It was at least a sobering experience for everyone. While personally I feel no one's to blame for these deaths, I know that much has and will be gained from analysis of the accident and everyone working fire will approach it with a renewed dedication to safety. It's clique, but something very positive will come from their deaths. dave

From climbingboulder.com : Be careful out there.....--------------------------------------From: "Malcolm Daly" Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2002 10:18:38 -0700 Myke, Here is something to post on the site about Rod Willard. Mal Hi,For those of you whom I have not met, I am Kerry Evens, Rod's wife of 4 months. I wanted to e-mail everyone on his list to let you know of some tragic news. Rod was killed in an unbelievable ice climbing accident on Jan. 5, 2002. Briefly: he was the belayer when an approximately 400# block of ice broke free and struck him on the top of his helmeted (of course) head. Death was almost instantaneous, he was attended to immediately by friends who were EMT and ER nurse. Everything that could have been done was done. It is comforting to me to know he died in the mountains, the environment he loved over all others, and that he was with dear friends. For an avid climber like Rod, there is no better way he would have chosen to die. His memorial service will be held Wednesday Jan. 9, 2002 at the American Baptist Church in Fort Collins Colorado at 10AM. The address of the church is 600 S. Shields St. in Fort Collins. The service will be preceded by a processional of fire trucks, ambulances, police vehicles, Search and Rescue vehicles and AirLife of Greeley helicopter. The processional is planned to begin at Poudre Valley Hospital at about 9:20AM and go to the church from there. We are encouraging people to line the streets from the church to honor Rod as the processional goes by. There are several memorial funds being set up should anyone want to contribute in Rod's name. Poudre Valley Ambulance Service is setting up at scholarship fund for funding others in Paramedic school. Also, Rod supported Friends of Tibet, whose address can be found on the internet. I am so sorry to have to share this devastating news with you all. I know that everyone who knew Rod was a better person for knowing him and he was well loved and will be sorely missed. Yours in Sorrow, Kerry PS: This accident happened while Rod was belaying a climber on "The Little Thang", aka, "The Seventh Tenacle", "The Frigid Inseminator". This has been the site of at least two other serious accidents, one of them resulting in a death. The Little Thang is the mixed climb directly behind the Fang in Vail, and offers some of the best "sport" ice climbing around. For those who think that sport ice climbing is safe (whatever that means) this accident should serve as a wake up call. Be careful out there...please. - Malcolm Daly

I just talked to a friend of mine that did a ski tour out towards Lake Ann. I think they went to "Ann Butte" Does this ring any bells. Anyways, she said there were several "awesome looking flows" in the Swift Creek (?) drainage and on the south facing side of Shuksan Arm. (is it swift creek that drops down from Austin pass towards Lake Ann? Thats the one i'm talking about...) She said it's be a couple hour ski in but speculated that there were several pitches of steep, well formed ice. I've looked into this drainage before and never seem anything myself. Anybody have any personal experience here?