rayborbon

Rock on Jordan!

Hmmm this may not be true but is reported to congress. ********************************************* http://www.fs.fed.us/recreation/fee_demo/fee_intro.shtml#t3 *********************************************Public reaction has been positive when they see benefits and when fees are easy to pay. The Forest Service chose an aggressive approach to the fee program - encouraging projects of varying sizes and fee types, differential pricing, and charging first time fees for many activities, facilities, and services. Projects range in size from a four-forest project in Southern California to a parking fee at a single trailhead to Northern Michigan's Sylvania Wilderness. We are testing fees per person and per carload; fees for heritage expeditions, visitor centers, camping, boating, hiking, day-use, wilderness permits; and multi-agency fees. The test locations do not yet, in aggregate, represent a nationwide fee program, although we are working towards that goal. They are individual test projects that give insights useful in developing a more integrated fee system in the long run. ********************************************* If you think you agree with me check out this: http://www.fs.fed.us/recreation/fee_demo/commentform.html ********************************************* http://www.fs.fed.us/gpnf/[/url] Glad to hear that forest fees are going to lazy a&^%& people that wanna sit and do this: Mount St. Helens: Replaced projection system for movie, at the Johnston Ridge Observatory. [This message has been edited by rayborbon (edited 03-22-2001).]

Nice comments. Let me just make myself clear and state that I will continue to make inappropriate comments myself. I have however decided to direct them at people I know only. Let's not get all bent out of shape over fun See you out there. -Ray

Nice work Blight sounds cool as heck! Maybe I'll have to put that on the tick list too Baltimore, I think you are policing the wrong thread eh? If MrGoodTime was pissed off then maybe he would voice it or send me a message. Not trying to flame this up but did you ever think that some of us know each other a little? Just let that *&*& go bro and climb on. -Ray

I recommend Slipstream.

Fire it up!

Not surprised. Good job for you guys!

Baltimore I was just having fun I understand people are just looking for info sometimes. However I think MrGoodTime may forgive me

Oh I thought it was yours just because of the name BTW why the Richard Simmons do? If you go to Thai country you can get the girlies for goot price. [This message has been edited by rayborbon (edited 03-15-2001).]

You bet Jon just drop me a line.

. Many park superintendents still feel that a new, larger visitor center would solve many of their resource problems. Park development, it seems, is still seen as a principal means of managing and preserving park resources, and managers who implement large construction projects are often considered successful park superintendents. http://165.83.219.72/hafe/discovery/sess-detail.cfm?Session_code=L-08 Oh yeah: A state park director was recently heard to observe that visitors "feel more comfortable" in parks that charge entrance fees -- the implication being that fees keep people who are "different" away. http://165.83.219.72/hafe/discovery/sess-detail.cfm?Session_code=L-31r ******************************************** Good ole REI the place where the masses get thier gear. Do the customers know this? ******************************************** "We are very pleased that the National Recreation Fee Demonstration Program, which is the direct result of our efforts, will produce more than $150 million this year in new receipts for the four agencies covered, including an estimated $20 million for the Forest Service." From letter to Dan Glickman, Secretary of Agriculture dated 9/2/98 signed by: Wally Smith, Chairman of REI, Kym Murphy, Vice President, Walt Disney Company, plus 14 other corporate executives from the Recreation Roundtable. [This message has been edited by rayborbon (edited 03-15-2001).]

I can resole them with some hot mops and shoe goo. I won't even charge either!

http://www.perc.org/brfparks.htm Interesting to say the least: "Visitation is at near record levels, yet the park service reported a $500 million maintenance backlog last year. Something is surely amiss with the financial management of our parks." [This message has been edited by rayborbon (edited 03-15-2001).]

Sounds like a route Erik would put up.

I hope this never happens.... It's like getting charged for exactly what you consume or use. How can we justify this... How can you really judge who is imposing the most impact without really knowing for sure. http://www.arizonarepublic.com/arizona/articles/0312colossalcave-ON.html

Yeah I missed out eh! I will be crawlin round the cliffs on the prowl now. Not for the routes either. You ever get any response about the sister thing? [This message has been edited by rayborbon (edited 03-13-2001).]

Not a beer gut it's the third breast. BTW some people have numbers 4 and 5 on thier backs too.

Right on Erik, I was *&^& cragging on ice in Lillooet and saw dookie. Marble Canyon on the trail (nice to clean out of my crampons!), Loose Lady approach. Not to mention trash at rock crags. Do your part and crap away from the trail and water sources. Plus pick up your trash too. -Ray

Wild Wilderness has recently obtained a copy of the America Recreation Coalition's Fee-Demo Phase II legislation. We have placed it on the web, along with ARC's explanation of its various components at http://www.wildwilderness.org/docs/po.htm (see specifically the last four links on this page). This proposed legislation would not only extend the "demonstration" until Sept 30, 2004 but would result in PROFOUND changes in the way the program operates. It would : 1) extend the program for 2 additional years 2) create a revolving slush-fund for new fee-demo sites 3) bring special use permits/fees into the fee-demo program 4) encourage 20-year partnership permits with the private sector!!! The ARC then goes on to identify it's two "KEY ACTORS" for this legislation as: Representative Ralph Regula (R-OH) -- (202) 225-3876 Representative Norm Dicks (D-WA) -- (202) 225-5916 Ralph Regula has been ARC's champion from day-one. To a lesser extent, the same can be said of Norm Dicks. We can be reasonable sure that ARC's legislation will move forward within the next few months, OR (more likely) will be attached as a rider to Appropriations Legislation later in this session. If we are going to prevent ARC's newest legislation from passing, we will have to do a far better job of communicating to these and other congressmen, our opposition to fee-demo. After 4 years, fee-demo has already proved to be a failure, but congress has been insulated from this information. Our job is to tear down ARC's insulation and let the truth be heard. As always, you help is much needed and greatly appreciated. Scott ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Scott Silver Wild Wilderness http://www.wildwilderness.org

Thanks Greg. This is the same one I posted a few weeks back and it deserves attention. ********************************************* The Fiscal Year 2000 Recreation Fee-Demonstration Program Report to Congress is now on the web at http://www.doi.gov/nrl/Recfees/2001Report.PDF As expected, this new report further confirms that the fee-demo program is floundering badly. Here are a few key facts and statistics available in the report. 1) Fee-Demo receipts for the National Park Service FELL in FY2000 compared to the previous year. 2) Of the $133,626,000 collected in Fee-Demo receipts by the NPS $3,378,000 was spent on "resource protection" and $12,643,000 were spent on "visitor services". By way of contrast, $27,687,000 of these fee-demo receipts was spend upon "COLLECTION COSTS". 3) The US Forest Service, Fee-Demo obligations for FY 2000 broke out in much the follows way. Here is a summary of the data: Spend upon: fee collection 17.9% annual operation 30.7% law enforcement 3.3% repair and maintenance 15.5% resource preservation 3.4% Meanwhile, participating agencies are doing their very best to put a "smiley face" upon the dismal results of this program. The best they could manage to say is that: "Visitation to recreation sites participating in the Recreation Fee Demonstration Program continues to appear unaffected n any significant way by the new fees." "Overall, the $179.9 million of fee-demonstration revenue in FY2000 is essentially the same as the $176.5 million in FY 1999." What they do not say (but report in the data) is that the number of visitors to NON-FEE public-land recreation sites continues to rise rapidly as Americans avoid fee sites and find alternative places to recreate. What they do not say (but report in the data) is that over half of all receipts currently reported as "fee-demo" receipts are, in reality, National Park entrance fees that were ALREADY being collected prior to introduction of Fee-Demo in 1996. I encourage people to read this new report and use the data to help show their Congressional representatives that the fee demonstration has, after nearly 5 years of testing, clearly failed to prove its worth. Fee-Demo should neither be made permanent nor further extended. It should simply be allowed to wither an die. Unfortunately, the American Recreation Coalition has other plans --- in fact, they have already written draft legislation that would create a Fee-Demo Phase II program and extend recreation user fee authorization until Sept 2004. A copy of that proposed legislation is available upon request made to Wild Wilderness. -Ray [This message has been edited by rayborbon (edited 03-07-2001).]

http://freenet.bishkek.su/garth/alpine.html Short but nice.

There are many places I have climbed in the Portland vicinity I can't remember their names... I know Beacon Rock by the river is cool though. You should be able to go into any store in Portland area and get a book. If they are still in print..

Rob\all, This is very similar to my training regimen. Ask my good friends Seriously though it is sometimes. However I don't recommend it for all.. Hike a lot and very intensely (I stress intensity for workouts more than frequency) 2-3 times a week with heavier boots and get used to carrying larger than normal packs too. Make sure you do a couple of speed shots up to Muir just to gauge yourself. Rob, we should train together. I bet we would get along well. You bring the booze I'll bring the stogies then off to find the chickies. -Ray

Spock, You kick ass and don't take any of my stuff seriously I am no hard man.

<Smart ass comment don't take seriously> Anyone wishing to climb under falling rock let me know so I can accomodate you. I know of the ultimate trundle block below the E Peak of Mt Daniel