selkirk

In the current era with the current technology everyone is our neigbour.

bugger.... online has it at having been at or below freezing all week So at 40deg I take it it's completely shot?

Well, the big tipping point on the moral equality in for WWI/WWII was that the Germans were both gassing their own people and were the initial aggressors actively attacking initially non-hostile countries with the intent of taking over. That said, some of the shit we pulled was pretty ugly as well. Anyone ever read Slaughterhouse 5? From a pragmatic standpoing however, the decision to return tit for tat in blatanly going after civilians, wasn't playing any role in actively increasing the ranks of the Germans. Besides it was an organized government that we were fighting. In that case going after the civilians could justifiably be seen as attacking the country as a whole and decreasing it's ability to continue to make large scale war by destroying it's resources (in this case people). The same doesn't apply to the guerilla warfare in Vietnam or the current terrorist movement. The more we crack down, the more civilians we kill (collateral or otherwise) the more the population see's us as the threat, and in the end breeds more terrorists. I've said it before, but if we want to use conventional tactics to end the war in Irag, Afghanistan, or the the Middle East in general it will require that we raze the entire region to the ground and salt the earth. IMHO there are only two ways to end terrorism. Kill anyone and everyone who might ever become a terrorist, or convince the populations who provide recruits for the the terrorists that we aren't their as a threat and don't want to play a role in governing them. The problem is any chance we had of doing that in the near term is toast, we've blown any clout we once had. and will be much better off stepping out of the region almost entirely. To end the violence there we need allies with local respect to step in and provide a stabilizing influence while we bow out. Iraqi troops would be great, but they can't draw any support from us at all or their tainted. Egypt, Syria, Iran, Pakistan etc. would all be better choices. They all have a vested interest in a stable Iraq, and the local jihadi's will have a much harder time recruiting people to kill muslim troops from the region. We might almost be better off stepping entirely out of rebuilding efforts or any effort to affect or facilitate local politics, and serve only as a policing force responding to violence and/or the threat of violence. Let the local develop their own government from scratch independantly.

She'd make a great Senator.

Because the people who work at the ACLU are already paying taxes to support the government and military who is trying to kill those fuckers already. But if you hold the iraqi insurgents and international terrorists up as a standard for our the behavior of our own military than that is the best moral and ethical behaviour you can hope for from our people. Our torturing people serves absolutely no ones best interest. It mentally scars our troops committing the acts, tarnishes our reputation and diminishes our clout on the international stage, destroys our credibility in the Mid-East, gives the insurgency another selling point for recruitment, and at best extracts only highly questionable information or outright lies told only to appease the individual committing the torture. Travelgate, Whitewater, and the Lewinski scandal were wastes of time. Clintons morals may have been questionable, but he did a good job running the country. None of that should ever have been serious news and only served as a distraction. Rumsfeld, Bush, Gonzalez etc. are a different story. Not only are their morals questionabl, their perceptions seem to be blinded by arrogance and righteous indignation. And their solutions seems to be to stoop to the lowest common denominator in this war. The ACLU and the Germans shouldn't have had to sue Rumsfeld. It shouldn't have happened in the first place. And with the Gonzalez memo supporting the statnce that we shouldn't be bound by the Geneva conventions, in my opinion impeachment should have at least been considered. Should Rumsfeld be held accountable? Fuck yeah, but it shouldn't stop there. Everyone who was aware of what was going on and did nothing should be held accountable. It's interesting, the people who commit blue collar crimes (assault, murder, robbery) typically screw up the lives of one or two people per incident. Those who commit white collar crimes ruit the lives of huge numbers and are treated more gently. Those who who turn a blind eye or facilitate torture on an international scale, probably get a very nice severance package, and a lucrative consulting gig. "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. " Franklin

lol. I just didn't want anyone the size of the Fremont Troll climbing on my gear However there are always enough tools and ropes to go around, and I've got a spare pair of crampons I can throw in if your interested. Just need boots, a headlamp, and clothing you can abuse a bit. Well, and we need to get off our asses and get something regular going again

Wow, your cool. Only when held up to your shining example.

Not so much a statement about the community as about Dru, and the fact that 1/3 or all registered users are his avatars. Kitty, If your not interested in scratching around on rock by headlamp, you might want to drop in on a Pub Club. Good way to put faces with names for at least a few people.

Regardless she's welcome to come to the next DT night Though if she is a troll she has to bring her own ice tools, crampons and 11 m rope, I don't want her bending mine http://www.cascadeclimbers.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/615358/Main/38051/#Post615358

Managed to sneak out there last night for a couple of hours. It's all in good shape. Someone was kind enough to put in a but in a bit of a belay platform at the bottom, and add some links of chain to rap from the top bolts. Was that you Alex? Thanks to whomever it was. Still need to look more closely at the route on the far right more closely during the daylight to see if it'll go Maybe next week we can do an official Seattle DT night.

It's a 5.9 crack, but the face moves at the top are 10a. And I've done that too.

That pretty well bites. I thought my morning was rough as I could have sworn it was friday until 30 minutes ago. Had some fuckers break in and steal my pos radio about of month ago. Broke the rear window during the torrential downpour so it sat outside getting wet all night :mad: Fuckers. I hope their lifetime of bad karma and jailtime was worth the $50 they might be able to get for the radio.

I had one that sat in my closet for a good long while before I gave it away. There are some routes down there athat justify it IMHO. BBQ the Pope is probably the classic. It's solid 10b climbing for the whole thing, from the move off the ground to the top. But for a 10b climber, that first bolt is way the hell of the ground and well within broken ankle/leg land if you fall getting there. But then again i'm awfully risk averse.

Your officially out of the club Dru. Luke rode Ton-Ton's.

Why in the hell would anyone ski at Silver? Of course when it was still Jackass and the tickets were $15 it was pretty cool! Schweitzer is vastly superior though!! Better snow, better vertical better runs

So has anyone been out to the I-900 crag yet? Is there still dirt to stick for the top out to the left hand lead route? Cheers

From NOAA Today: Cloudy. Light wind. High 29. Tonight: Cloudy. Light wind. Low 28. Wednesday: Mostly cloudy. Light wind. High 30. Wednesday Night: Mostly cloudy. East wind 5 mph. Low 28. Thursday: Mostly cloudy. East wind 5 mph. High 30. Thursday Night: Cloudy. Low 28. Friday: Mostly cloudy. Slight chance of mixed rain and snow showers. Probability of measurable precipitation 20 percent. High 29. Friday Night: Mostly cloudy. Slight chance of mixed rain and snow then slight chance of snow. Probability of measurable precipitation 20 percent. Low 27. Saturday: Mostly cloudy. Chance of snow. Probability of measurable precipitation 30 percent. High 32. Saturday Night: Mostly cloudy. Chance of snow. Probability of measurable precipitation 40 percent. Low 26. Sunday: Mostly cloudy. Chance of snow. Probability of measurable precipitation 40 percent. High 32. Sunday Night: Mostly cloudy. Chance of snow. Probability of measurable precipitation 40 percent. Low 28. As It's north facing it might still be in

If your ever in Hailey Id. (en route to Stanley, and named for my great great great grandfather too boot so you know the town is cool ) go find Java and get a Bowl of Soul damn tasty stuff. They've got branches in Boise and Coeur D' Alene as well.

Going to a good coffee shop is like going to a good bar. Friendly setting, nice people behind the bar, good music, and they serve your favorite high quality drug of choice.

ooh, lots of these! (all in Seattle though) Zoka in Greenlake - Great atmosphere, good stiff coffee, and free wifi for telecommuting Cafe Allegro and Solstice in the U-district : Both have great vibes and good coffee. Becoming a fan of All City Coffee down in Georgetown as well

I didn't even know it was possible to get stuck on flat ground, but it appears I was mistaken.

Are the Prohpets hammers or adzes, or mixed. Bent Shaft or Straight shaft? I assume metal shaft with the rubber coating?

Anyone get up to Chair peak recently, or anything else in the Snoqualmie area for that matter? Anything at all forming up yet?

Is this only running Thurs-Sat? or will the prices stay down until the sale items are gone like they have in the past?

Forgive me NOLSE..... I just can't help myself this morning but.... There was this neutrino on an obscure climb in the alpine lakes area....