selkirk

A few shops seem to be ok with demo-ing tools as well. Jim at PMS lent a couple of us a pair of Monsters to spend an evening drytooling with, and heard some scuttlebut that Marmot led a fellow demo a pair of DMM Rebels last weekend

Congratulations on the new job Archie! Hopefully it pays better than snowboarding and breeding wieners and is just as much fun

Irresponsible owners suck. Two of the nicest dogs I have ever known where a pit and doberman. Sweet as can be. Though the pit wasn't allowed in the house since it smelled like ass. It had never had a bath, and decided it was never going to. It liked being sprayed down with the hose on occasion though. Used to wrestle with the doberman all the time. Pits' are just such powerful dogs that you can't afford to have them at all ill behaved or they become a danger. Only dog that I've ever been bitten by was my own miniature schnauser growing up though.

Nail polish works pretty well, especially if the biners/gear has any raised areas on it (like stamped logos or strengths' along the spine). It'll get into the depressions and lasts pretty well. Either that or you could just get the biggest heaviest biners/pulleys you can find so no one wants to steal them

The weak point is "improbable" Everyone knows that there are three kinds of lies.... lies, damn lies, and statistics. The probability that we came into existence through coincidence happenstance and evolutions is awfully low as well, yet somehow we ended up here.

"we can't know his intentions" is evasive BS. If your going to apply that line of reasoning, it applies to what you believe is the right thing to do as well as the wrong. My interpretation of "In his image" has always been in reference to the capacity for rational abstract thought and free will. Everything else should stem from that. Of course I'm a very bad Christian so what the hell do I know.

As a good christian, Seahawks, what is your position on free will/predestination the action of God? I've always thought that for the god you believe in to have meaning he can't take action in this world. Didn't understand the second part (meaning). Willing to answer what I think. May not be the answer though as I've never met God. Free will/Predestination - alot arguments about this stuff, I do not claim to have the answers. I think you have been given totaly free will, God didn't want robots. What good was a creation if we all were robots. I think the predesination part comes in becuase God knows what decision you will make before you make them. Lots of stuff I struggle with, one big one for me is why God keeps himself so secretive. Then I think maybe he just can't stand the crap that is going on here and rather than destroy it all, he keep himself from it and hopes people will wake up. Flame away. Just my thoughts and not preaching. No flaming at all. My thought has always been that if we have free will, the predestination falls apart. Nothing controls your actions, God may or may not know, but he can't/won't influence. Which is why he is secretive. To reveal himself in this world in any way would be to directly affect our choices which would destroy our free will. For God or salvation to have any value or meaning (and it they don't the whole system implodes) we have to be free to choose something else. It can only be achieved through a leap of blind faith. Along the same lines, I think christianity's view the Satan is all screwed up. He can no more tempt us without tampering with free will than God can. We have to have the choice to do as we please, for the choice to do as we see right to have any meaning. Why else would God have allowed Eve to eat the apple, or the snake to tempt her, or Job to disobey his will or ........... Once you go down this path, the Bible becomes a work of man. Inspired by belief in God, but a work of man none the less.

That's just it. If your completely comfortable with your belief and the fact that it is baseless then there is no need to become defensive or aggressive about it. I've always thought that people get defensive when asked to prove or support their belief, when they don't understand that it's based on faith and nothing more (or less for that matter). It's possible to progressively back yourself (or someone else) into a corner, where seemingly everything that supports your belief has been stripped away except faith and choice. It scares the hell out of people who haven't come to terms with it, as it appears that their belief system has just crumbled, and they fight tooth and nail for that not to happen. But in reality it's that leap of faith to believe in something (or the leap of faith to believe in nothing for atheists) which makes that belief simple, beautiful and powerful.

On a completely different note going back to a comment of KK's Why in the world do people seem to latch on to either/or propositions and insist on seeing dichotomies where non exists? Evolution is not inconsistant with the Bible. Neither is the big bang theory for that matter. And why o why do people insist on reading portions of the bible literaly, and other portions allegorically? The whole thing was written by people. People who are inherently fallible and attempting to explain a belief system and series of stories and legends that they were (and still are) incabable of grasping. grrrrrr I hate that!!

As a good christian, Seahawks, what is your position on free will/predestination the action of God? I've always thought that for the god you believe in to have meaning he can't take action in this world.

Like to see you prove he doesn't. can't prove a negative. Both are a priori assumptions. You either choose to believe or choose not to believe. Neither can be proven or disproven, and their is no more support for one than the other. The big question is, are we comfortable with the choice we've made even though it's undefendable/unprovable?

At the time it just was. Not necessarily contradictory, but was just very odd to be approached in that context at that moment by someone with a missionary perspective while reading a text that I doubt he would have approved of in anything but a purely acadamic, studying the enemy kind of way, yet which was completely capable of absorbing his own belief system without a hickup.

I had a friend at work several years ago who was a jack mormon in southern Idaho(she was early 40's) who got a call at work one day followed by a serious ass chewing from her mom. Her first instinct, oh god, someone I know saw me tending bar the other night. Turns out someone had seen her in a coffee shop and called her mom to tell on her We both thought it was funny as hell Was a very interesting summmer. I think the most surreal experience was that after spending an hour outside working out in the park, a very nice fellow came over and invited me to a prayer meeting while I was sitting in lotus, wearing a gi, and reading the Tao Te Ching. I politely declined.

Could everyone please attempt to seperate "religion" from people? Morals, Ethics, the teaching of Christ/Buddha/Mohamed/Moses/Lao Tzu/Confucius/...... When taken as guidebooks and corrected for their level of understanding at the time, are usually pretty damn good guides. The leap of faith part that makes a religion is fine. People on the other hand pretty well suck. It's not religion's that cause wars/killing/genocide it's power hungry egomaniacs who use religion as a tool to generate more power/control and enforce their will on others. There are certainly other tools (read politics, be it international or street gang level). But that doesn't make the religion, or the belief system bad, it makes the people abusing them bad. Communism is a wonderful idea, but could only ever operate if people weren't fallible. And no, belief doesn't necessitate the feeling that you have to shove your own beliefs down everyones throats. I'd tie that much more closely to insecurity in your beliefs than anything else. Convincing other people to believe the same thing as you bolsters your own conviction that your right ties back into ego and inferiority complex's as well. I've never met anyone who is extremely comfortable in their own beliefs and embraces the inherent contradictions that belief requires (atheist, catholic, etc) who feels the need to shove them down other peoples throats at the point of a sword or under the weight of a text. (And yes, atheism requires the same blind faith, a priori assumption that faith does. Which ever way you lean everything can become self consistent, but to operate in either system requires and unsupported assumption. Lack of of evidence in and of itself is not evidence. ) And archies' right, the ability to envelop seemingly contradictory beliefs is a beautiful thing. To think of everything only in terms of dichotomies is a uniquely western/classical greek failing. oh yeah!

I wonder if a cell phone counts as an electronic signaling device Here's to hoping this dies a quiet death either on the floor of the house, or as an unfunded unenforceable mandate that area managers conveniently overlook It might be worth trying to get a respectable expert to come down and testify to the feasibility/responsibility burdens of this, either from the AAC with regards to their report on mountain rescues, or possibly someone who was on the NPS board for the discussion about Denali.

Silly girl, inflamed should apply to everyone involved

A theocracy run by puritan evangelicals?

Good points Minx and G-spotter....I was roped up and climbing at age 5 (my dad stopped climbing shortly thereafter but it was mostly due to a neck injury he received on Prusik), hiking at age 5 with the parents and grandparents, and started skiing at 7 (sister was 5) and started backpacking at age 8 (sister was 6). Hell, who hasn't run into couples backpacking with kids who aren't even old enough to walk yet? Kids certainly mean that priorities change, and you might have to cut back on the technical part, but if they're old enough to walk they're just about old enough to start hiking/ backpacking/ snowshoeing/ skiing. I loved growing up with active parents! I probably have the same number of days out per year now that I did growing up.

Good for you. That said I'm married (wife climbs some, but not nearly as much). Started a brand new job with limited vacation (10days/yr), spent 2 months working 2 jobs, and 1 month working 3 jobs, went through the whole looking for a house/loan application/buying/dealing with new said house and the furnace crapping out and still managed probably 40+ days out last year. Not phenomenal but not half bad either considering I lost almost all of June/July/August to the house thing. And probably only 10 of those were with the wife. Of course she did get to spend 2 weeks trekking in in the Himalaya's without me. Not only did no one yell at me but I usually had good food, wine, a happy wife, and a warm bed waiting when I got home. For Christmas she got me an ice climbing pack and encourages me to do stupid things like winter climbing and drytooling in the dark The only thing I get pestered about is not having or wanting a cell phone Being married only sucks if you marry someone who either makes it suck or the dynamic between you sucks. My wife kicks butt and I wouldn't trade my life or spouse for anything in the world. If you want it to, find a good partner, and actively work at, being married rocks

It's all about the the italian sausage at Visconti's........ So damn good and they never even look at you crosseyed when you come in grimy. one day we went in and ended picking ticks off and even broke a lamp on accident, and they smiled and gave us great service They got a good tip for not kicking our asses out!

Last year I managed to find a good screw and couple of good pickets before getting to the trees, but there was also quite a bit of neve' on route.

I have a feeling there's lots of snow, and some ice but I doubt the snow has been consolidating very fast on the N. face. I ran into a guy who works at Marmot in Bellevue and as of last Wed. there was ice on the 1st pitch followed by lots of unconsolidated snow on the rest of the N. Face. It's climbable but difficult to protect for the 2nd pitch, but there may not be much pro to be had between the top of the ice gully and the trees on the N. Face. I was up there Sunday and after much wallowing in powder, we didn't like the avy conditions above the Thumbtack, but things may have stabilized by now. Made for a nice snowshoe though If you go, have fun be safe and give us a TR!

I'll Echo Bug, when you go up watch the Avy. conditions up there. A guy was caught in slide last Saturday in the valley that you approach from, and several parties (mine included) turned around at the thumbtack as we didn't like the avy conditions. In the basin above the Thumbtack, the 15" of gropple had been wind blown and turned into more of a windslab. Have fun, be safe, and if you get it give us a TR!

Trip: Chair Peak non TR - Date: 1/21/2007 Trip Report: Several other Mountiess and I went up to attempt a Chair on Sunday. Good boot pack to Source lake and up the sloped immediately above Source. Once above the lake we turned left up the next slope to get to the Thumbtack and spent a couple of very slow hours breaking trail in knee to thigh deep unconsolidated powder. Avy conditions seemed moderate all the way to the Thumbtack. Dug a couple of quick shovel shear pits, and the columns made it past the digging, past beating on the top, and took a firm pull from the backside to shear about 2 ft down. It was good enough for us to go on. Once into the Thumbtack basin the snow seemed much more wind affected and slabby. There was a visible crown from a recent slide above the Thumbtack. Avy conditions were making all 4 of us nervous as we none of us had really extensive avy knowledge (Avy. 1 only) so we decided to call it day and got home in time to drink lots of beer and watch the football games So a nice conditioner, came home safe, had the whole valley to ourselves for the most part and caught an absolutely incredible sunrise :) All in all a good trip. Two other Mounties caught up to us in the basin, and were going a little further up slope to do dig a couple more pits when we turned around, and as we were heading down we passed another group of 4 following our trail up. For the other folks we saw up there, did anyone get on route? What were your thoughts on the Avy conditions. Oh, and next time we charge beer for early morning trailbreaking services Gear Notes: Snowshoes, but could have used more flotation or ski's. Approach Notes: Left about 5:30, turned around above Thumbtack at 9:30 Alpental to top of the south facing slope above Source Lake 1:30 hrs From the top of the south facing slope up the east facing to the Thumbtack 2:00 hrs

The NWAC avy report was for modearate below 6000 ft I think? A few folks and I were attempting Chair Peak on Sunday and turned around just above the Thumbtack due to avy conditions we didn't like. Things in the valley bottom and the slopes above Source lake seemed ok, but up near the base of Chair there was a relatively recent crown showing, and I think due to the wind things had slabbed up a little more. On the way out we also saw what looked like avy debris on the west side of the Source Lake basin.