John Frieh

As this is your first pair of tools you will be doing a lot of learning and, depending on your luck, some amount of suffering. Good example: remember when you first starting rock climbing? How you use too think that you had to see a hold to stand on it? And then one day you smeared your shoe and viola! a new level in climbing. The same kinds of things will happen in ice climbing… your swing, sizing boots, gear placement, vomit suppression (when you start leading) and so on. Which brings us to the question of leashless. Yes going leashless offers advantages over going unleashed. However going leashed offers advantages over going unleashed. The question is which advantages best align with the types of climbing you will be doing. Leashless: the big advantage and disadvantage is you aren’t attached to your tool. Good when: you want to switch hands, place pro, climb with your hands, throw an iceball at your asleep belayer, wave at the sporto whose project you are dry tooling, etc. Bad when: something causes you to drop your tool. Generally on moderate WI or AI or alpine routes, the types you will be climbing as you as just getting into it, you will not be doing any climbing that requires you to match hands on a tool, figure 4 or 2, etc so the ability to detach from a tool quickly and readily isn’t merited. With that said if you get to the point (and you might) where you are climbing hard routes in the alpine you might want to go leashless in the alpine. Most recently (but definitely not the first time) some parties in the Ruth Gorge (PS: anybody want to go? Dickey?) are going leashless (the kind of tools that have dual handles… upper and lower) but also carrying a third general alpine axe for the decent (you can’t plunge dual grips at least in firm snow). I would say get a new or used pair of tools and put some detachable leashes on them. Peter’s axar’s would be good first pair… and it’s about time those tools started getting some real use . I think I also saw a pair of CFBP’s on the page. And if you have the cash to burn and know ice is something you will do for awhile get a new pair. There are numerous discussions on the page regarding what tools people like. Finally I would highly encourage you to read Twight’s Extreme Alpinism and Gadd’s Ice book for a discussion on modern tools. Additionally reading Chouinard’s Climbing Ice is highly recommended; a number of the techniques he discusses you will need to master over the next few seasons. And if anyone has any Chouinard gear laying around and want to sell it to me shoot me a pm! And FYI: drytooling and mixed climbing are basically the same thing... drytooling is the way to practice for the mixed climbing you will encounter in the alpine. Hope this helps! Peace!

Good links triple T. I use this link as my one stop weather shopping spot: Pacific NW 7-Day Zones Forecasts A nice feature is after you click the appropriate zone it gives you the option to click on a second, more detailed map for a "detailed point forecast" which appears on the right. Doing this will give you the forecast (how accurate it is I'm still determining) for the particular location and elevation. Good example: Mt Stuart Play around with clicking different points on the detailed map and watch how the location (given as a distance from some town) and elevation change.

Have you or do you own a normal pair (ex: quark, black prophet, viper, etc) of ice tools? Do you plan to own both types (leashless specific like ergos and "normal" pair like quarks) or just a pair that swings both ways (like the quarks)? What do you plan on climbing with your tools (alpine, snow, WI, AI, mixed, multipitch, singlepitch)? What pro(s) do you think a leashless tool has over a leashed tool? PS: Maybe a mod could move this to the gear critic…

Yeah… but it sounded like people in this thread disliked too long of a leash (clipper) as it was too hard to flip into one's hand and then reattach... it kinda sounds like it comes down to mantle ability (clipper) vs easier reattach (BD). Or is the viper redesigned so that one can mantel without detaching? And if you use those triggers make sure your tool has an attached/integrated pinky rest... using just a trigger without a pinky rest is a great way to blow out tendons in your hand and/or finger. Based on how the trigger attaches you cannot attach one at the base of the tool to act as a pinky rest… your tool needs to come stock with one or the manufacture needs to offer one (i.e. fang).

Looking at your pic it looks like your leash is too short to mantle on the tool... truth? Do all vipers sport a short leash like that? My 2 cents: I would be greatly annoyed if my leash length prevented me from mantling on the top of the tool.

Oldman: weren't you saying Jeff is coming out with a revision soon?

Area code for Portland is 503. PS: I'm an idiot which shouldn't come as a surprise... I still have my cell number from Corvallis so I blanked it. But anyways... anyone interested in carpooling holla.

PDXers interested in car pooling up and representing the 541 drop me a line. Departure/return times negotiable.

Are you planning on wearing the SP on your harness or rigging it so that it stays at the belay (not recommended by manufacturer). Assuming you are wearing it... 1) manually pull correct amount of slack through device and lower out on either your rap device or feed 2-3' sections at a time and lower out on the SP directly (doesn't work well for pendulums that require a lot of swing). Practice. 2) Jumars are best but you can use the device to reascend by yarding slack through the device as you pull up on the rope. Nearly impossible if one is free hanging.

She has stopped posting until Cracked stops pming her his phone number.

20% off orders over 50 bucks. Hey Jason: bindings! Details EDIT: tell them in the comments they should advertise on cc.com!

I've heard Hyndman and Old Hyndman (in Idaho) each have a route or two... specifically: Old Hyndman Peak: Northeast Face Bear/Chicken Variation, IV 5.8 Mixed Dean Lords, Brian Wood, Oct. '00 Old Hyndman Peak, North Ridge II 5.7, 10/6/2001 Hyndman Peak: Northeast Face "The Travis Michaelis Memorial Route" WI 4, M5, (1800 feet) Dean Lords, Abe Dickerson, May '04 What's the dope? Approach length? Etc etc… Anybody?

I always just invert on my heel spurs to place gear... you have both hands to place gear and attach/unattach from your tools

Sorry... I assumed everyone had ice tools already... But my point was with warm dry weather the only way you're going to get outside is drytooling... no ice to climb... no snow to ski.

My 2 cents: I personally haven't seen a quality drop (a few of my friends have been abusing the newer version of the andinista) but the weight increase makes me wonder... What's the point if it weighs as much as a frame pack? All my WT backpacks are pre 2000 and I haven't had a glaring quality problem outside of shoulder strap buckles not staying tight... who knows? And if anyone has the old andinista made out of paclight (the 1.5 lb version) and wants to sell let me know! FYI for anyone interested in a Andinista in small: Mountain Shop in PDX has one 2000ish model for half price in stock. Grab it! I picked up a cold cold world Valdez last year and have been super stoked on it. Weight is close to the WT Freney but you get much more cubics... I heard Randy raised his prices significantly for next year so all of you looking at one might want to grab one at the old price... I know when my turgid sausages wear out I'll by replacing with cold^2. The wind shirt is super light weight… maybe too light for rock abuse but under a light fleece and over your base layer and it rocks. I tend to run in mine mostly. The half bag is the deal to grab (I think): I have spent some nights in it that were well below the 30 degree rating and didn’t have a huge problem… only a few sessions of crunches/windmills. It’s cut large enough that you can easily wear your boots inside, the other fabric is Epic so you can leave the bivy sack at home. What I have been doing lately is have my partner bring a full size super light sleeping bag and then I wear his belay jacket in addition to mine. Seems to work until I get a double from nunatak.

http://www.cascadeclimbers.com/plab/

I still like Dave_Schuldt's "taking a big dump" idea to please Ullr. Shouldn't be too hard to do this holiday weekend... I'm still planning on a season of dropped tools and face shots (not the powder kind)...

Dragontail Madness... no ice required (just cold temps). Beckey guidebook for details.

NOAA latest

Sell your skis now and buy some leashless tools...