Rad

RIP. Off to New Dimensions.

Fabuloso! BTW, are the bolts placed to allow one to cheat past the 5.11 friction cruxes on Passenger if necessary, or are these mandatory free moves? Great pics too.

I agree with Lowell that the numbers are probably low, I don't think this is because climbing is dying. Here are two factors to consider: 1 - Climbing may once have been trad only, with crags being just training for tha alpine, but this is no longer the case. There are plenty of folks who mainly boulder, mainly climb hard sport, mainly climb trad at favorite crags (e.g Index), mainly climb ice, mainly climb indoors, etc etc. So even though there may not be tons of >=5.9 alpine climbers that doesn't mean there aren't plenty of climbers. 2 - The distibution of good WA alpine rock routes is skewed toward easier lines so harder climbers look elsewhere for challenges. I wouldn't be surprised if the number of alpine rock routes looks like this: # 5.7 and 5.8 >> # 5.9 and 5.10 routes >> # 5.11 routes >> # 5.12 routes. I have to imagine this is a largely a function of WA geology, because guides suggest there are plenty of alpine 5.11s and 5.12s in CA and CO. Perhaps climbers who are motivated may swiftly outgrow our lovely PNW and seek bigger challenges in the Bugs, Yosemite and high Sierras, AK, Patagonia, Europe, Colorado etc. The rest of us weekend warriors seem to have plateaued in the 5.9 to 5.11- range and happily gobble up what WA has to offer.

Great TR. Someday I'll print this in small font and mutter as I squint in the fading light, "so is this the decoy rap or the first 25m rap?" Dehydration is a beyotch.

I've discussed this with partners as well. I can't answer your poll without some more granular definition. What is PNW? Does BC count? OR? Idaho? Montana? WY? AK? What is alpine? Do you mean back country, and if so how far back? Above treeline? Do you mean only trad? Will I think we can agree that Prussik is alpine. Gunsight is alpine. CBR is alpine. What about Darrington? Guye peak? Vesper? Sloan? BTW, I think many of the people on this board would like to see your list of the 25 routes people actually do. There are plenty of routes in the Nelsen guides that don't make that list (e.g. Disappearing Floor, Eve Dearborn (OK, it's ice), and Girth Pillar).

Of course you can solo, but I wouldn't. The route we did was around toward the West and pretty straightforward though exposed. Bring a few stoppers and/or cams in the .5-2" range and you should be fine. Maybe a couple of long slongs. Lots of pro options up there.

Looks like he's seeking beta for das toof. You could have some real fun with that one.

Poke around on CC and you'll find a few of them. Dragon scar, Dragons of Eden, Colchuck cragging, Solid Gold etc etc

QS has a few large crevasses to navigate. The Arm has one gap that you can walk around in two minutes. QS has a longer approach via Boston Basin, which is great for camping if you plan to go overnight. The Arm has a trail that's shorter, friendlier, more continuously scenic, and well suited to a day trip. Both end on the summit, which has some of the best views in the state. Both have great views along the way. So....that's a long-winded way of saying if you plan a daytrip go do the Arm.

Let's be all inclusive and call it: KNITTING AND OTHER ACTIVITIES FOR CRUSTY TURDS TOO OLD TO CLIMB. I'm sure I'll end up there soon myself.

According to studies referenced in Performance Rock Climbing, motivation is highest when the chances of success are about 50%. Ratings can actually lower motivation. For example, if you expect a 95% chance of success the focus and motivation may be lowered as you expect to cruise (no way I'll fall on 5.xx). Conversely, if you expect a 95% chance of failure then motivation and focus may also be lowered (I'll probably fall because this is 5.yy). Some of the most enjoyable routes I've climbed are ones where I did not know the rating beforehand. Removing ratings from the mental equation eliminates some of these unproductive mental preparations. It brings a sharper focus to the onsight (or even TR flash) experience. Sure it's nice to have a sense of whether you're pushing your limits, but you can usually FEEL that, right? For many years, I had this pre-conceived notion that I could not climb 5.11. For that reason, I didn't even try many routes that I probably should have tried. Instead, I should have jumped on some thinking, "this looks tough but I'm feeling good, I'll try to find the best sequences, work the rests, give it all I've got on the cruxes, and see how far I get". Maybe I would've advanced faster instead of staying in my 5.9-10 comfort zone. Moreover, if we take many routes of the same grade at the same area odds are good that they are not all exactly the same difficulty for the same person. For example, in the past year I've done several 11as at X32, x38, and Index, and I can probably rank all of them in terms of relative difficulty FOR ME. And btw, my combined list would certainly not have all the Index 11as as the hardest or X38 as the easiest. They'd be all mixed up. The two bouldering comps I've been in were fun because there are points assigned to each problem and NO RATING OR GRADE TRANSLATION WAS GIVEN. One of the great things about climbing is that there are a wide range of styles/routes and moves/skills needed to do them. So rating across types is not just comparing apples and oranges, it's comparing liebacks to jams to slab smearing to crimping/edging to steep jug pulling etc etc etc. Their relative difficulty depends on the relative strengths of the climber. More experienced and accomplished climbers, as noted in other threads, usually obtain proficiency in all areas, a worthy objective. Climbers who stick to one or two styles are staying within their comfort zones, just as I did with grades, and are missing out on a lot of fun climbing. Break on through to the other side....Doors To me, climbing means solving mental and physical puzzles. That's why it has captivated me more than any other sport I've tried, and I still get excited about every trip.

What does that have to do with anything? It grants him the moral authority to tell anyone what to do and how to do it. "Hey Halibut, fetch me another beer wench!" or maybe that's, "Hey Halibut, fetch me another beer, wench!"

Was at the Far Side this morning. Most routes are at least partially wet, including ones that typically dry quickly. A few are dry, but is it worth the drive for those? That's up to you.

You'd have to buzz the treetops to get a good shot of the LTW. Too bad the Inn/restaurant in Index went under. I'm forgetting its name - ate there a bunch and stayed there once too. It was very picturesque with the UTW as a backdrop.

Ratings shmatings. The rock is dry, the weather is good so get out there and climb!

Nope, but he was good friends with my younger sister and we had many mutual friends. Maybe I have been lucky, but I haven't lost any close friends to climbing accidents....yet.

Uh..Porter. This turned to spray on page one. In case y'all haven't noticed, EVERY thread in the rock climbing forum eventually morphs into an exploration of one or more of the following themes: 1 - why bolts are actually the first harbinger of the apocalypse. 2 - why crusty the armchair clown climbed harder in the 70s in EBs than Chris Sharma does today. 3 - why one route, crag, or genital appendage is better than another. Someone should write a little software to generate these threads - it would save these guys some time

Article on Denali fatalities Mislow was one year behind me in high school. Good guy gone. .............. He had climbed Mount Everest and Mount McKinley, won the respect of colleagues at the Brigham and Women's Hospital, and was known for his drive for excellence. On Thursday, Dr. John Mislow and his climbing partner died while scaling Alaska's Mount McKinley after falling about 2,000 feet, the National Park Service said. Mislow, 39, of Newton, and Dr. Andrew Swanson, 36, of Minneapolis, were roped together when they fell shortly before 2 p.m., the park service said in a statement. Another climbing team saw them falling between 16,500 feet on the Messner Couloir and its base at 14,500 feet. The Messner Couloir is an hourglass-shaped snow gully with a 40- to 50-degree snow and ice slope that is sometimes used by advanced skiers, the park service said. It is rarely descended or ascended on foot. "Some people come down that couloir, but most typically on skis, not typically on foot, like they appear to have been at that time," said Maureen McLaughlin, a spokeswoman for Denali National Park, where the mountain is located. Three skiers in the area were the first to get to the climbers. A team of volunteer rangers, including an emergency room nurse and two medics, quickly arrived and confirmed the two men had died, the service said. The two men began their climb of McKinley's West Rib on May 30. It was unclear if they were climbing up or down the 20,322-foot mountain when the accident occurred. Mislow had graduated from the Pritzker School of Medicine at the University of Chicago in 2004, according to the state Board of Registration in Medicine. Mislow and his wife have two children. "He loved being a dad," said Arthur L. Day, chairman of neurosurgery at Brigham and Women's Hospital. "He was a terrific person, an inspiration. He had a great work ethic," Day added. "When he was your doctor, you knew he was going to be there with you day or night, completely committed." Mislow was in the fifth year of a seven-year neurosurgery residency. He had a bachelor's degree from Princeton University and a Ph.D. and medical degree from the University of Chicago. Day said he remembered Mislow talking about his climbing expeditions. "He was an adventurer, and that was another thing that made him so unique and interesting." Last month, neighbors noticed camping equipment in his yard, apparently in preparation for his Mount McKinley climb. The Park Service said both Mislow and Swanson were experienced mountaineers. The Denali National Park presented the two men with the Denali Pro Award in 2000, recognizing their achievements in safety, in self-sufficiency, and for assisting fellow mountaineers. Eric Meyer, who joined Mislow in a 2004 ascent of Mount Everest, said he remembers Mislow as a careful climber. "He was a very meticulous planner," Meyer said. "He would go to great lengths to plan his climbing approach in the mountains, his tactics. He was not one of these sort of fly-by-night people. He was very methodical, very calculated." Although Meyer made only one trip with Mislow, he said he remembers Mislow for his enthusiasm. "He had a very infectious love of climbing and a very charismatic, upbeat approach to climbing," Meyer said. "He was a joy to be around up in the mountains." McLaughlin said that two other climbers have died this year on Mount McKinley, and that four climbers died last year. "It's definitely experienced climbers that come here," she said. "It certainly has its dangers." It was the second time in less than two months that a doctor with ties to the Brigham died in an accident. Phyllis Jen, the popular medical director of a major physicians' group at the Brigham, died April 21 after she was involved in a head-on car crash near her home in Needham. Jen, an internist, had served for the past 27 years as medical director of Brigham Internal Medicine Associates. © Copyright 2009 Globe Newspaper Company.

Why go to the pub when you can go to the crag this time of year. CBS, are you in town?

Thanks for the detailed TR, but can you explain why is this a "great climb"? Every time I read TRs it sounds like wading through nasty scree, soloing easy 5th class on super loose rock, one good traverse pitch, and then a whole bunch of scrambling and schwacking. I suppose I should do this route someday, but there are too many other things on the list that seem miles better. Maybe pics will convince me otherwise someday.

There is another difference that hasn't been mentioned: On a bolted route someone has already defined how the pitch will be protected. In contrast, on a trad pitch you must decide how to protect the pitch yourself. Some pitches are very straight forward, others require conserving gear for higher cruxes or anchors, being mindful of ropedrag, and figuring out placements that are not immediately obvious. This costs time and drains mental energy. It is also the reason why I find trad onsights particularly fulfilling. Thus, I'd propose that ONSIGHTING a trad pitch is harder than ONSIGHTING a sport pitch of the same grade. I agree with Tim that the difficulty of redpointing trad and sport routes is probably probably pretty comparable once the moves, gear placements, and clipping stances have been worked out.

Totally agree with catbird. Next time you're on a sport climb carry your rack, pull a tricam off your harness at each bolt, clip it to the bolt, then clip a runner to the bolt and clip that. Alternatively, just hold your hand over the bolt while you sing the alphabet song. Surely more strenuous than just clipping the bolt. That said, there is another factor: usually older climbs have stiffer ratings than newer ones, and most trad climbs are older than sport climbs. In an area where both types went up at the same time then the ratings should be closer.

MattP and Catbird are generous in sharing their time with stranger noobs, and I'm sure many others are too. In addition to rolling the dice in the partners forum, you can attend group outings and events and meet people that way. It's a bit more of a test drive before you buckle in for 5 pitches of Dierdre. Generally, you get what you give. I think of the cheesy church sign on Lake City: "Want a friend? Be one"

This thread is getting thin on content. Last year we went up Leave My Face Alone at Index and upon rapping down with our 60m rope we got stuck above the Zoom anchor and had to play rope games to get down. 70m would have been nice. On the flip side I remember going and climbing Braile Book on a 60m rope and getting all messed up because we wanted to run the full rope length and ended up at awkward belay points because the pitches were geared for a 50m rope or shorter. I'm glad y'all had such a golden time in the golden age with your goldline. Hope you are enjoying your golden years. I'm not ready to go there yet myself.

all fixed. Trees are OUT