fenderfour

NOHHH shit.... one of the biggest hypocracies of modern times. Yeah, how can anyone be AGAINST offing an innocent fetus and FOR frying someone who rapes and murders a 12-year old? Incredible! Definitely "one of the biggest hypocracies of modern times." Now, I'm not a believer, much less a theologian, but I would think that old testament bit about "Thou Shalt Not Kill" would seem pretty clear. Did I miss the part where it said "unless they deserve it" or "unless your secular ruler tells you to" or "unless they aren't in your clan" or any of the other loopholes people imagine they get to use? I think it pretty much means that any Christian (Jews too, right? Doesn't the old testament apply to them as well?) who supports the death penalty is an out and out hypocrite who for damn sure can't criticize anyone else about moral relativism. I'm no believer either, but I always thought that studying religion was damn interesting. So here's what I know: The Old Testament very clearly required capital punishment for crimes like adultery. Remember how Mary was almost killed for getting pregnant? We can go further back and look at Genesis 9:6: "Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man." Hipocrisy? A quick search yielded the following biblical crimes punishable by death: Following a different religion strangers entering the temple black magic talking with spirits adultery incest prostitution in the temple bestiality fornication having sex with mom & daughter being a priest's daughter and a prostitute you could even be killed fo rdoing work on Saturday. You had a funny post with an interesting thought, but you didn't do a whole lot of research.

Jail overcrowding BEsides that, if these people are indeed sick, wouldn't they be sent to mental hospitals?

FYI - your morals aren't my morals.

Just a thought about Green Tea - 20Mg caffeine, Coffee 80 Mg. Other places list green tea as high as 35Mg and coffee as high as 140Mg. The whole green tea has more caffeine than coffee thing is a myth. BTW - thanks for the info. I get some gnarly cramps in my quads.

Criminals that get caught are for the most part dumb. That's why they get caught. How exactly is someone sentanced to life w/o parole going to get out? Umm... ok.

Nothing gained, just things disposed of. Most of these people are very smart, otherwise they wouldn't have gotten away with so much. They probably wouldn't have too much trouble convincing the system that they are "reformed" or "cured" when in fact, they aren't. Did you ever see the interviews with Ted Bundy? He didn't seem like a killer to me.

I think you guys are right. We never should have electrocuted Albert Fish, a man who kept a 4 year old boy for 5 days, beating him to "tenderize the meat" before he killed and ate him. We never should have put Henry Lee Lucas to death for killing at least 20 people even though he admitted to killing Hundreds. Richard Ramirez, the Night Stalker should probably have been let out on parole for good behavior. Even more recently, we have the beltway snipers who were just misunderstood as they killed innocent people just going about their lives. Read about them here Every now and then an innocent man slips through the system, but I think that is becoming less of an occurrance these days. As for preferring death to incarceration - that's a noble statement, but self-preservation is a powerful thing. Winter's statistics - I have heard the same thing elsewhere.

I don't think that this is about ego, but ethics (as the poll says). People's ethics are different which is why (I think) Dane started this poll. You're right Lucky - Routes are different. Some are run out. If you don't want to climb a runout, don't climb the route. Some are 5.14. I'm not going to chip holds to make it a fun route for me, I will respect the others who can climb it. I agree that a group of out of control crowbar climbers is scary. Are these guys really out of control?

A riveting story about the loves and losses of a former Catholic priest...

Touching The Void DVD is available on the REI website

is it really a .15a before someone else climbs it to verify?

How about a Thread here or Here?

Funny, I don't think that I have ever gone to Eightmile rock and NOT seen a car parked there. No access issues yet. FYI - I usually camp at Eightmile CG and walk over when I'm too lazy to climb elsewhere.

w00t! w00t! ... Sorry, wrong thread...

Or you can drive to the bottom and have your cooler of beer handy.

Now I don't want to hear anymore of you Canadians making fun of our leader, ok? Canadian Prime Minsiter is a dum-dum

Story Here

Let me get this up front - I have never set a route. I probably never will. This post isn't directed at anyone specifically. IMHO, if there is no hold to climb on, there is no route. You don't chip a hold, you don't bolt a rock on. Routes on rock are found, not made. If you want to chip/glue build a home wall. If the old bolts are scary and just plain dangerous, then replacing the old bolts is ok. Adding a bunch of bolts is not. Some rock is unclimable. Deal with it. Just because it is nearby doesn't mean that it HAS to be developed. One more thing - I've never been to Dishman. This is just the basic ethics of rock climbing that was taught to me by a group of people who have an amazing amount of experience.

Generally speaking, I don't eat anything that has the phrase "skim off hair" in the preparation instructions.

Unless, of course, yours are cheaper.

Are we taking sides? I'm with Greg in the pit.

Nekkid hippie

It does bring up an interesting point about asthetics. The lichen on the boulders has been there as long as the trees, but for some reason, it's ok to get rid of the lichen but not the trees. Boulderers are lichen killers!!! (all climbers are, but let's not get into that.)

Climbing at UW rock is free. So is Marymoor. You can also stay in shape by carrying my pack around. I can make a weekly schedule so that you know where to meet me in order to carry my pack. And since you are a fellow cc.com poster, I won't charge you a single cent for this training opportunity.

11 worth