billcoe

Ujahn was telling the david, who handed us the guide I sent you, that the roptes were like 5.8 when he pulls out that paper which said they were 5.10 Snaileye couldn't find the directions, this should get you close: Close to downtown, @ 1-1/2 blks north of the Lake. Take Country club turn S on Iron Mt, head to North shore blvd or Bertwick to Cabana. Park at that space right at the RR tracks (see on the mapquest map). Look west @ 1/2 a city block right down the tracks, theres a shitty little bolted rat hole right there. It's a roadcut for the RR. link mapquest Kev, so you won't be trad climbing ans skipping bolts ? You folks moving to Skamania?

Thats funny Dan. Ck yer pms snaileye

Stick around. Didn't see you as venting as much as sharing. You'll soon see that I'm always right anyway. See, what Kev says above is 100% true. I totally and fully agree, but I already defined this issue differently, more fully, and in my mind it's not fully framed in his post, but it was in mine. He asked. I thought I gave him the definitive answer. If you note, he starts out appearing to say its overbolted because of the cracks, then he later comes and says there are not enough bolts Then he says he won't fix the huge potential issue he discovered. When one of the upper rocks fell off and one of the 2 anchor bolts was wiggling with finger tension, I was ready to pop a new on in immediately. Why not? (someone beat me to it) Now most places, you just don't just show up and pop a bolt in. It isn't done for many reasons, but that is not the case here. Kev's a pretty strong climber, that he felt he got sandbagged at this little sh*thole says something. For me, I'd look up and see this about to occur and avoid the route. Maybe do the next one 15" over and toprope this one. I'm a pussy though. I don't let beginners belay me for that very reason. I'm afraid. Maybe it is or can be argued that it's an opportunity for a beginner to learn about such things. I don't know. All I know is that I know that this isn't the place for an accident. I agree with the dudes who put the bolts in. As far as your assertion that world class climbers don't climb at this shitho*e: probably not true. They get burns in all kinds of areas and in the damnedest of places. But alas........3 weeks later we are still discussing this smelly old fish on this small little plate.

I was thinking that too. BTW: Eerie prediction ? Hey Porter, new thought, if the surgery goes bad and ya don't make it, can I have your cams?

Holy shit. Didn't you do some other harder testpiece route on the big stone as well?

Porter, didn't you fall on that very route at UW rock and break your leg right after posting this? Thats eerie.

The quote code looks like this start = quote=nosepicker in between is [ ] with the Q on quote the first letter, no space, and the R on nosepicker the last letter before the second bracket. finish = Start =

Click the "quote" button under the post when you respond. BTW, there is no bigger fish to fry currently as this is the only fish currently on the plate. Inconsistent describes all of us. Take care

As worn by Madonna Interesting sales verbage "As worn by Madonna". Link NSFW "You''ll never guess which A-list super star was spotted out and about proudly clutching her Ann Summers Purple Penetrator? None other than the Queen Bee of pop Madonna was snapped holding a see-through bag that revealed her naughty purchase as she left a building with husband Guy Ritchie taking up the rear (doesn't look like that'll be for long!) We wonder what it is about the Penetrator that Madge, or is it Guy, finds so appealing? Is it the six inch dildo (she's a powerful woman of course), the choice of multispeed (we know she likes a change) of the adjustable waist and back strap (she is a slender lady)? Looks like the couple, who got wed in December 2000, are having a good go at spicing up their marriage and in the pic, released by Holy Moly, Madge is looking a little sheepish to say the least. We wonder if Guy is so keen for her to take the driving seat? Well...he's probably used to it!."

This you too? Layton school of religon

Someone must have pushed him. Must have paid extra for the good drugs cause he's aweful quiet right now, normally 15 min won't go by without a Porter post. Dude: here's wishing you fast recovery and pretty nurses.

Sorry, climbing. Real climbing....

Thank you Rad!

Welcome home, see you Monday then!

Can't watch it. I'd rather watch a train wreck. More interesting....and intelligent.

Well, I find it interesting that Wayne, who's been on that Mt, hasn't offered his opinion yet. Wayne? Yer thoughts?

Was this that trip when you were so dry yer partner was sucking the water ya spilled down there when the schoolmarms was climbin by? Think I heard of that one. That cramping thing is getting more common as I age.

I'll bring some beer Monday to sedate you about this bolt issue. Ujahns a good dude, primo craftsman/contractor, I'll try and hook you up. Like most, he stays away from teh interweb.

I have now, after a close read, determined that you feel that there are too many bolts. Not enough bolts Inappropriate bolting Irregular and uneven bolting There should be more bolts but there are already too many Bolts should be removed And Bolts should be added Should have no bolts where there are already bolts Should have the shitty cracks beaten out and enlarged Should have the cracks removed. Someone is unhappy when the joy and love of climbing should be flowing through them. Given all that is there and the style it was done, just step up to the plate and fix it - just toss another bolt in there and call it a day. I think that route was bolted trad style and use to have 1/4 inch bolts and it was later rebolted with 3/8". I'm not kidding. I was serious about touching base with Ujahn earlier too. cya Geoff, thank Kyle for the pics the other day - that was great, I'm sooo pumped! Tappet bros. rule like big dawgs-thanks.

Runouts? Ha ha! funny. good one. You are kidding, right?

I agree it’s a bit run vertically but if you look at the second and third route from the right…..there are two bolts not even 12 INCHES apart horizontally. At first glance….I did a double take. I know there is an arête splitting these bolts, but from the ground its looks bad. I thought the 11.- (second route from right), was bolted irresponsible. The guide states you will not deck…..I find that hard to believe. I agree the cracks are dirty (ever heard of cleaning?). Not to be a complainer but…..it looks like someone just got lazy. Most of the cracks I dug my hand into would take great gear…..I am not saying the place does not need bolts…..only a lot less. Climb at your own risk. Yes to have it close for an accident would suck….but the question remains…..does the “possibility” of closure out weight 50 years of ethics? Just asking! I disagree, but I do respect those who came before me. So....you respect this then? Or you respect the people who did this because they came first? Not sure what your saying Kevin. Huge point of order, I didn't say that the "Cracks are dirty", I actually said "shallow and discontinuous, shit for pro." Check my text. I see those as hugely different statements. Especially as far as new climbers to the sport go or even tired old goobers like myself eating dirt:-0. I know that I get a kick out of that lil rathole. I really suspect you do to and wouldn't change anything about the place either. I'm glad that we can climb there, and think this was the best course of action for the reasons enumerated above. Really, this was the best way. Here's some recent "dirty cracks" which just got done and were not "shallow and discontinuous, shit for pro" and so did not get bolts. [insert gratuitous climbing shorts here] OK, maybe that one up above there is discontinuous and shit for pro, I've paused to put in a piece and I dare you to show me the crack there, but I didn't put bolts in on the FA. BUT, you can easily toprope this one at the Butte, while you can't do that at Rathole cause it's some ladies backyard and she doesn't want to see dirty bums popping up and down on her property all day. dirty dirty hugely dirty, 3 shots at cleaning it off, first piece is 20' up. Used a shovel to clean it. Most of these were FAed this summer. No bolts. Except we did 2 each for an anchor on the 1st and 4th one. I'm good climbing with no bolts. LO is good with. Those guys did a good job. My thoughts. BTW, hopefully Jimmy did the cleaning at that other area you had mentioned earlier. If not, remind him. Someone gave me crap for spraying the oak out there. Hopefully most of it's dead by now, or close to it. I hit the top, but that 40' high tree of poison oak you dudes whacked and tossed earlier at the base regrew in big and thick, so I hit it too. Some young lady says to me as I wander by: "What are you doing", I say "spraying the oak", she frowns and says " Does it have a disease"? Gotta get some work in, later.....

Aren't you almost driving right past Mt St Helens? I think thats an amazing and unique thing to be up there, and you could do it yourself sans partner on the way. (Get a permit.)

Nice call and nice list Tharsh. Probably best to hold off the disadvantage list for now?

I mentioned this earlier to you via email, but thought it should be tossed out there on this forum since the thread is still going. Look, it was never cool to bolt cracks and still isn't, and whether these are even cracks could be debated although there is an obvious spot or 2 for pieces here and there. I think it's a great place for the style of pro that is there. Bolts: which aren't too close together either. But thats me and here's why. I was there once with Ujahn and some guy pulled a head sized block and the rope came tight 2' or so off the deck when he fell - on a bolt. Ask U if you don't believe me. A) The cracks are shallow and discontinous, shit for pro. The rock is better now, but still relatively loose. Climb up and tap on the top on the left side for instance. On short routes, there is often only be 1 piece of pro between you and the deck, death is a close companion for a beginner. More so when the pro is so marginal. B) There are many people who climb there who are beginners. C) It is owned by the RR and people climb there with their tactit approval. IF, there was a single accident during which the authorities would close down the place, causeing the RR a major inconvienance, say yellow tape for 8 hours while the authorities investagated a death: I do not believe that the RR would ever allow anyone to ever go there again. D) At 30' high or what ever it is, if there were not bolts, you could probably expect plenty of accidents given what is noted above. I think those guy's did a great job and should be commended. Hey if you're climbing there tomorrow, how about clipping the poison oak in the center top area? Nice place to get a pump on your lunch hour isn't it, you should talk to Ujhan he use to live right near there and has a few more secret places you could get a quick bouldering pump on when you get bored of this rathole in 10 min or whatever it takes. (I say that affectionately, I like the place - (especially if it just rained in the summer, cause the butte is wet and this place dries off fast) Right in downtown LO, no shit dude. Secret. But that's for him to share. Not me.

Yup, wish I could look like that. Hey, way to go fer it on LB Preston! ____________________________________________________________________ To all: I hope you all have been asking folks out there about this issue. I have been less than happy with my efforts. [whining] It just seems difficult to get to people to interview them on their opinions. They're all down below climbing. Only a small percentage post here.[/whining] Anyway, if all of you can please keep asking everyone you bump into out there, and maybe we can hook up with a bunch of the regulars at the dash for trash Oct 6th as well, and do the deed at some point afterwards if we don't have resistance. I think I did the trash pick up 2 years ago or so and only knew maybe 2 or 3 people there, the rest seemed to be strangers who said that they climbed out there. Lot of older folks. They nabbed a huge amount of trash and lost so tires that year too. Nobody I've talked to has out and out opposed it yet, I've had some long discussions and explanations (and some short ones as well----->"Crackwarriuuusthat?"), but haven't been out there a lot either. Most people don't know where it is and have not heard of it. It's tucked back and way out of sight, you have to sketch out along the cliff edge to get to the top of it. Although it's hard to argue with those few people who have pointed out that adding bolts to the top of a route that hasn't ever had bolts violates the FA ethic, and makes it so that that new climbers do not have any incentive to see and learn how to set an anchor (if they can just clip bolts). However, I have not met that person exposing that viewpoint yet who actually knows this route. Once you let them know the full situation, they soften on it. Some of you have brought this up to me that we should start plotting the bolting strategy and we should discuss that some more before bolts actually get stuck in, cause as it's been noted by several folks, there's that other route right there to the East thats just getting a pile of moss on it from no use that could use the bolts too. (The former huge tree use to be the shared anchor for both routes and the crack was a backup, but the tree's now gone gone gone. ) I bought a bunch of Petzl Collinox on ebay dirt cheap, like 25 of the things. 10mil glue in bolts, and they'd be perfect on top of that little pinnacle that juts out in between the 2 routes. You could conceivably use a single length runner to drape it over each way to hit either route, and also if you led either you could just plop your ass down and clip. Perfect. I haven't actually measured it, I want the poison oak to finish dieing or Clif to pull it out first before I get out on that limb. Maybe we want to put in removable bolts first, and if things are not well received.....well, it's not a mess. I have some Steel Rawls 5 pc somewhere I don't want to be permenant anywhere and don't really have a use for them. If they survive, like the bolts on Glens route, we can take them out and put in the stainless glue ins later. The bolts 2 routes over next door to Crackwarrior, for instance, have never appeared to be been disturbed or replaced. Still steel, still rusty. The route next to that one - someone added a single stainless bolt maybe 8 years ago there and it's pretty much invisible from the top unless you get on that route, and then you see it (good placement but hard to get too unless you're leading), don't think thats been disturbed but don't know for sure. Looks the same to me. Things to think over. Someone should toss in a back up big-assed STAINLESS STEEL bolt by flaky old man and the rusty chains on top of silver bullet. Maybe I'd just better do that with the wonder drill instead of just keep mentioning it. Those things are rusty. Bad rusty. Rusty rusty with real rust. Probably be fine for 10 more years- but who can predict. PS, whomever is doing all the gardening/weed whacking by Silver Bullet: thanks! Was out bouldering on top with Tim H tonight, and we had checked and saw that ALL OF THE OAK by Espresso is now dead, that bunch has been there for years and years. No more. A small piece may remain by White Rabbit, but maybe not. The English Ivy right there by espresso could be trimmed back if someone wants to step up and clip it back. CLIFFFFFFF? Drill update: very disappointing that I can only get between 2-3 3/8 x 5" holes drilled on a full battery. I might have to give up and get a real drill.