Alpinfox

OMG!!! I can't believe you would post such insensitive fluff in a post about two people who are going to prison for life! Don't you realize that their FAMILIES might read this??? I mean, HAVE A LITTLE FUCKING SYMPATHY FOR THESE CRIMINALS! FUCK!

Yesterday I heard that Bush has granted Negroponte (head of NSA/CIA) the authority to deny the SEC access to corporate accounting records for corporations involved in "government contracts". Apparently the President has had this authority since the Carter era, but this is the first time that authority has ever been delegated to someone else. Result: Negroponte can decide that the SEC can't investigate the telephone companies regarding the recent phone record data-mining. How much did the government pay them for those records? And what about Haliburton? I'm sure their books are off the table now. How convenient for Bush/Cheney. I'm curious to hear Jay's take on this as he obviously knows more about this stuff than I do.

Yeah. I agree. Let's just keep in mind that this is a public bulletin board and that our "laughing in the face of death/injury", while perhaps theraputic for ourselves, is likely not seen that way by outsiders when it is scrawled on the obituary page of their loved one. Jeebus. I'm feeling like a tight-ass complainer now.

Yeah, I've noticed that too, and it's understandable. For example, the chance that the families of the folks that recently died on Everest are going to come across the thread about the accident here are small, and even if they do, we are just some random website halfway around the world from the victim's families. I doubt any stupid spray here will mean very much to them. I still don't think it is acceptable to be crass or dismissive about those deaths, but it's less offensive to me due to the fact that I don't know them, they are far away, and their families are less likely to be severely affected by anything we say. In this case, Hardy is a local and it's pretty much guaranteed that he and his family and friends will read this stuff eventually. And it's already been demonstrated that several people on this website do actually know this guy. While no one spraying about "Mounties are the suck" or even "Yellowjacket tower is only 5.4 and doesn't need a bolt" or whatever probably meant to insult/offend Hardy or his friends/family, I think it most certainly did. That thread went from "Hardy Batchelor is comatose in the hospital" to "Mounties are a threat to themselves and others and I hate waiting behind them" within a dozen posts or so. This guy is STILL comatose in the hospital. I don't think it's appropriate to be saying anything except "get better soon" at this point. If folks need to immediately start analyzing the accident, criticizing the participants, etc, it should be done in a separate thread. In this case, the spray wasn't even germane to to accident. It was just tangential crap and I'm glad it was cut out.

Interesting. Where did you have them tested?

Jesus wouldn't go to Idaho, that's for sure.

I'll probably get flamed for this or told to "take it to Cafe Sensitivo", but here goes: I'm pretty disappointed in the recent behavior of folks on this board with regards to the thread about the yellowjacket tower accident. I think people lost sight of the fact that there is a very severely injured REAL person with friends and family who are likely very traumatized by this event and who have probably looked at this website for answers/discussion/information about the accident. They must think we are a bunch of assholes. Even if the guy was a "bumbling mountie with no business in the mountains" (which there is no evidence for by the way) and he did something wrong which caused him to fall, he didn't DESERVE to get hurt. It is a tragic situation and we should all keep our mouths shut, with the possible exception of offering our condolences, until the facts and outcome are known. And even then, Mountie-bashing and general spray have no place in a thread about an injured person (my opinion). Start a new thread for those sorts of discussions. When a friend of mine was severely injured recently, it was comforting to me and him to read the good wishes and a hopes for a speedy recovery posted on this website. I'm sorry that this guy hasn't gotten the same sympathy. I hope we treat threads about injured/deceased climbers with a little more respect in the future. OK, that's the end of my little rant. I sincerely hope this guy recovers completely and quickly and that his friends and family find solace. To Off_White for splitting up the spray/accident thread: Thanks. Cheers!

If you wanna go sport climbing, go to Smith or Skaha.... or better yet, stay in Colorado and go to Shelf Road, Rifle, Eldo, et al. As the folks above said, I would recommend climbing something other than IB. Get David Whitelaw's book "WEEKEND ROCK " for a good reference to 5.10 and under climbing in Western Washington. If you aren't persuaded and really wanna climb IB, use the search function on this website and you'll find lots of stuff.

I think the number one difference is demand. Demand is influenced by (perceived vs. actual?) design, function, and reputation of the product. Any American/European-made cam that is approved by UIAA or EN should perform according to specifications, i.e. hold an _kN fall in a laboratory, but good design and function may make the difference between being able to get the cam properly placed when you are sketched and desperate versus taking a big fall cause the cam was fiddly and you couldn't get it placed. For that reason, handling characteristics are my primary consideration when buying cams. With that in mind, I like BD c4 camalots and metolius TCUs. For what it's worth, I believe Metolius cams have the smallest cam angle which means best holding power, but smallest range. Compromise.

And shit will still happen. That's life. If you think you can be 100% safe all the time, you are delusional or stupid.

We can try to live by the impossible credo of the Department of Homeland Security - "Be on high alert at all times", but it won't work. We can take safety classes, first aid classes, scrambling classes, walking-on-pine-needle-covered-slab classes, and it might even help lower the odds, but shit will still happen. We can read all about every climbing accident that has ever happened and try to avoid similar situations, but it won't work. Shit will continue to happen. The mountains are a dangerous place. Rocks crumble, glaciers fall apart, trees fall over, lightining strikes, and snaffles attack. We can do our best to minimize the risk, but some risk will still be there. That's part of what makes it fun and interesting, but sometimes the bites you in the ass. Shit always has, and always will, continue to happen. Be prepared, be safe, but have fun. Don't let fear paralyze you and make you do stupid shit like take four hours to climb 1000 feet of 4th class terrain.

I think he is around. Likely designing a half-pipe or maybe grooming a snowpatch on Mt. Hood. Or he could be running a fishing/canoeing lodge in Wisconsin.

Operation Bears-take-back-the-urban-areas-from-stupid-humans has begun!!!! First bear spotted in Germany in last 171 years!

FUCK! Bad grammar overload! your = belonging to you. "this is your shitty thread" you're = a contraction of you are. "You're driving me nuts with your misuse of your/you're"

Can't say I recall seeing a TR for this route before. Edit: Found one

Minnesotans shovel 18" of snow off strangers' sidewalks wearing flannel shirts and gloves in -20 weather. For fun. Open-water snowmobiling? Minnesotans are just a different breed of badass. I spent 18 years in Minnesota as a kid and surviving the cold weather in itself makes you a badass. Minnesota is for softies. I lived in the Alaskan Interior. I = badass.

Hmmm.... wonder if that is what hammered the lower party. LINK

Yikes. Any word from the party above you? They OK?

It's obvious to me. Dean Potter did it.

Olympia Climber! You should call too! Maybe we can go on a DOUBLE DATE! I think they have offer some kind of special package for that. I might have a coupon.

Thanks Archie! Foxy got hisself a date!!!