Bug

Ibin Saud was the first "King" of Saudi Arabia. He lived in the late 1800's and early 1900's. He was brilliant. Everyone who met him was taken by his charisma, including the queen mother. The tribes of what we now call the Saudi Arabian penninsula had reverted to their ageless clan fueds after the death of Muhammed and the slow decay of the Council. Ibin re-united them under his leadership without using religion directly. Instead he used the methods of David- they would conquer a city state on the edge of their empire. Then they would use the spoils of that win to finance the rebuilding of neighboring city states that had fallen previously. It all flowed toward the middle and kept everyone in line so they could get in on the spoils. They also contributed to the armies. There are those who think that the 12 tribes of the Jews were not united until the time of David. That Saul was not a king but a cheif. David united Israel (the north) with Judea (southern modern Israel) and created the first union of the 12 tribes. The original 5 books of the Torah were written during David's reign as a court apologetic. This is all heresy to fundamentalists of course. Muhammed used David's "literacy of a people" to create the book of the Arabs in Arabic, for arabs. The Quran is channeled through Muhammed by God into the Quran. Muhammed was illiterate for the same reason Mary was a virgin. Long story. Ibin Saud used David's economic policies of expansion. I need more scotch to continue........

These two rose out of obscurity to unite disparate clans that had been at war for generations.

Ibin Saud just sent the spoils of the latest seige to the people of the previous seige and helped them rebuild.

You ramble almost as badly as I do. But the tribal stuff predates the Islamic stuff. Muhammed used it to his advantage. He would divorce one of his four wives (allowed under Islamic law) before departing on each military campaign so that when he "converted" a new area, he could marry one of the cheif's daughters. Family values.

All three of my brothers and I used to eat flouride tablets every night. None of us have cancer but our mother does and she didn't eat any.

Hope you didn't wear your disco suit.

Mt Blanc

give me a break, even i have walked up that face...certainly not first. layton needs a guide around here, and he already used his token Ouch, kinda mean! Next time I post a TR I will make sure to put it in "Cafe Sensitivo" 'cuz I am really pretty sensitive. All I wanted to see was if someone else had climbed that chosspile and if so what they thought of it, and also it was beautiful and a fun experience so I thought I'd write my first TR, but now I kind of regret it. Your TR was great and the a-holes who famed you are jealous. They were working at McDonalds that weekend.

Why aren't they staying in tepees?

Musharraf supports the bombers......there for it is musharraf! But........according to the Bush administration, it was the work of alqueida. Are you saying our president is a liar? OK. Are you saying he is lying again? OK. Do you have any evidence to the contrary?

In Missoula we drank surface water that came from Rattlesnake creek without treatment until the mid sixties. Then they started flouridating by adding it manually (dumped big sacks I heard) in the evening between 7 and 9PM. Then giardia was detected in the source and we went to well water. The well water is treated with chlorine and flouride and tastes awful compared to the old days.

Late June was perfect in 94(?). We (two of us) crossed the Carbon on two bridges we were sure would collapse and I punched through another with a hand and foot. Looking down through the hole, I could see the walls of the crevasse about five feet on either side of me and I was over a huge blue abyss. Getting on the toe was pretty easy as there was still a good snow pack. We started at the TH that morning so by the time we were on the ridge, it was getting soft. We postholed all the way to Thumb rock. A huge avalanche scraped the Willis wall bare that night and everyone except me thought we were going to die. I slept through it. The next morning was clear and cold. The start to get into the chute was a couple 5.8 rock moves. Once we got above that, we unroped. Rock fall was not bad and concentrated on the far right side so we kept left. We passed two other parties in the chute and had the rest of the route to ourselves. We scurried under the pyramid as that was the source of rockfall in the chute. From there it was a rock free ascent. The standard route cuts right around the serac but we found a snow block leaning against it and climbed that. We roped up on this section. It settled a foot while I was on it. Once on the Liberty Cap summit snowfield it was perfect conditions. The snow was like styrofoam and the sky was blue. Looking down through my feet I saw the edge of the serac and then the Carbon glacier 6000 feet below. Very airy. Since the climbing was so easy we were not roped up here which added a little spice with the exposure. We summitted and descended the DC to our other car at Paradise without incident. We were back in Magnolia eating steak and watching the sun set and glow off of Rainier that evening. It was like a Corona commercial. What a life!

The way other countries operate is very unlike our own. Well, it used to be anyway. Now that corporate America has bought DC we are not that different. Money buys you anything. Especially in a tribal oriented society.

As my girls get older I am freer to get back into climbing. I do not intend to throw myself at the rock but I do intend to push myself and get back on some alpine 10's and 11's. That is my favorite place to be. And I do not expect to die doing it.

Addiction comes to mind....

I was a college student but chose to take time off now and then to check out other ways of life. I went to AK for a 6 month stay and fished commercially. I went to Yosemite Park and worked in the concession stands. I learned how to land survey and got jobs as a rod man in many places, LA, SF, MT, ID. That also helped me get through college since my parents were not able to help out. Don't close your options. Definately make finishing school a goal but don't necessarily let it dominate your every activity. And through it all, I climbed. Oh yeah, after highschool I went to Colorado and climbed using the proceeds I had saved from swamping a rat-hole at night. Boy, talk about options........

Wait a miinute. Don't they wear white robes and have dark skiin?

Why not just get a pair of those video enabled glasses on Mission Impossible?

I hope I am missing your point.

MLK too.

Yeah a weak dollar is great! And the largest national debt ever. Cool! And all indicators pointing at recession. Right on course. Bill was a jerk in many ways (I can list them if you are interested) but he presided over the longest running economic growth cycle in history. Find aother way to attack the Clintons and I might agree with you. Bush over Hillary in the field of economics? You have to be retarded.

I hope you're right Graham, but I think that this will further disenfranchise the middle of the road pro-democracy crowd, and I suspect, this will radicalize many of them. BTW, the Butto supporters, who wanted democracy and freedom from a petty, power hungry, US supported dictator, believe that Musharraf, that dictator, was behind this. Well see how it plays out in the coming weeks and months. I agree with Bill. No disrespect Graham. The influence of assasination in an already violent atmosphere will most likely contribute to the downward spiral. It does not help that the military dictator (Stepped out of the military position OK but how far?) is violent by nature. I think we are seeing the final chapter of hope for democracy there. Very sad. Very sadly not surprising.

Sign me up for re-Gifting

Time with my girls and time with my girlfriend.

Easy there. Feck is going to close this thread down before it even gets started.