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Err, no. If you can't get up the hill without using your hands as well as your feet then that's technical climbing. There are other forms of mountaineering than technical climbing - but driving up a Colorado fourteener doesn't count as any of them. Under the right circumstances all the WA volcanos can be hiked, i.e. it is possible to walk up and down without any special equipment and without getting hurt. Of course it's also possible to get fubared.

Hah, that's sweet irony In other words you think we've been subsidizing French climbers when we've bought BD gear.

I don't know anything about yoga. How do I find out?

I thought about that. But nah, then I'd just have to spend more time working

That's the spirit. I'm going too, if I possibly can.

About a month ago I was in deep shit with my elbows, due to continuous keyboard hammering and mousing, and pulling too hard at the gym for a week or two after not climbing much for two weeks while preoccupied with work. Both the biceps and the forearm muscles that bend the finger and wrist were continuously sore and simply lifting my hand was sometimes enough to feel pain in the elbow joint. I took two weeks off everything, then started doing weights exercises for all the muscles that straighten the arm - the opposing forearm muscles, triceps, shoulders and pecs - and aided instead of free climbing. I'm also stretching a lot. Note that I can't really lay off the keyboard, but I try to mouse with my left hand now since the right elbow was (is) in the worse shape. I don't use the computer any less than I used to. My elbows are much much better now so this seems to be working for me. I've also become super motivated to improve my footwork. I'm going to start alpine climbing again this weekend, and free climbing steep rock in two weeks or so. Anybody else have a similar condition and advice for tackling the problem? If anyone is really into yoga or stretching I'd like to hear from you. Is there some kind of 'encyclopaedia of stretching' book that isn't ridiculously expensive?

I'm doing the same thing. I wasn't comfortable starting out solo but now I'm ready. It really helped to go with other aid gumbies a couple of times, then with a partner who knows his shit. PM me if you're in Seattle and want to go aid.

Oops, the plot breaks down... Consider that climbers are usually confined to a route and the descent and therefore not hard to locate - perhaps except if they're volcano slogging, which is more like hiking anyway. Hikers on the other hand often ramble all over the place and have to be searched for over areas measured in square miles.

Crikey! 150-300 right after quite a few on the run! Methinks you need a soothing cup of hot chocolate and a good book

Exactly, a pair of Koflach Asolo something or the others. Useful for you

If you don't start making vodka jokes I will ask the admins to close your friggin' account because of ethnic misrepresentation Hmm... how about a vodka gremlin?

So was it the Laytonomicon?

Right-o, the Marblemount rangers mostly rock. That's not new

For real? What and where is the Sloop, and since there is a crawl could we decide on a more exact time? Actually, scratch that, I'm climbing tomorrow. Don't know whether to make a smiley face or a frowney face Hmm... I'm not climbing Sunday - just in case y'all are still wrangling about the evening... :hopeful:

Woo-hoo, the turd TR was a classic.

Both. But nobody proposed that climbers would have to buy the units, or at least I don't think so. Instead the proposed model was probably something like checking out a locator unit during opening hours at Timberline There is a bit of a "gadgets are cheating" ethic.

One argument claims that rescue fees or rescue insurance would lead to SAR unit liability and vulnerability to lawsuits, which again would lead to rescuer insurance (kind of like medical malpractice insurance) and likely kill off the voluntary rescue squads.

Never mind the bollocks. If you want to lead badly enough to actually go out and lead, then go lead. You will find out how things work because you're motivated to do it. But if you're not sure, and having fun without leading, then why bother?

I have a strict rule about the time spent climbing exceeding the time spent driving

I'd dub that the "Mountie attitude" - rope up before you walk the stairs to the second floor, or cross the street

Well? So? When and where do we start?

I don't know if the "REI attitude" reaches much beyond volcano slogs and rock clip-ups. Da Toof perhaps?

There is literature out there that you could refer to, including statistics about the relative frequency of rescues involving the various groups such as hikers, climbers, snowmobilers, kayakers etc. Try a google search. The rescue units also keep logs of all searches that you might find interesting. Here's an entertaining little conundrum: Lost hikers, wandering Alzheimers patients, etc, comprise a much larger fraction of rescue subjects than climbers, and individual rescues also rack up much higher costs than individual climber rescues. Yet climber rescues receive much greater attention in the media. (The reason why hiker rescues can cost more than climber rescues involving helicopters and whatnot is that hiker rescues are much less localized - they can involve large numbers of rescuers covering large areas.)