texplorer

So if I take the cat up and then climb the Black Spider, is it a real ascent of the black spider or am I a peak bagger?

Redoubt, Thanks for your insights. You are definetely correct about the "so far so good" bit. I was implying something slightly different, although after reading my post didn't truly portray what I was thinking. As of late I have been sticking to strictly vertical climbing on good rock. In fact since YR with TG I have only done one alpine climb since. When I said, "so good so far" I suppose I should have said something more along the lines of, "thank god I haven't killed myself in the learning process." Many young climbers feel that they need to somehow prove themselves or show that they are skilled. As a beginner I know that I was like this and was so anxious to get experience. I was very reluctant to EVER turn around because I saw it as a kind of weakness or inadequacy in my abilities. As a result I progressed and did get alot of good experience. Luckily I gained just enough technical skill and was just plain lucky enough to be tempered by the fire yet come out unscathed. I feel comfortable in many mediums of climbing now and definetely don't feel I have anything to prove to other climbers now. Nevertheless I still find myself pushing the limits from time to time. After thinking about my experience with TG on YR I have changed my attitude in several ways. First, we had never climbed together before. I know I had (and still have) alot of respect for TG and didn't want to let him down. I don't think that starting the climb was unreasonable given the fact that we were not sure what the route would be like in that situation. As we ascended I did not feel that climbing was all that scary or difficult until I led that horrendous pitch of the first gendarme. That IS where I made the biggest mistake. When I started climbing up and all kinds of shit was coming off I should have downclimbed off and retreated. Instead I carried on with my familiar mantra -it'll get better up just a little higher. Well, as you know it didn't. By the time the keg sized block came off I was commited and basically out of gear. It was a scary dance with the reaper that pitch and I am glad I pulled it off. When I made the anchor the climbing looked easy going on the next pitch. Little did I know it was all stacked choss.(Yes, more chossy than the normal Oregon choss) I think that TG was thinking the same -it'll get easier just a little further- as he waded across the vertical stacks of crumbs. Once he returned, we were left with no option but to retreat but I felt just as much danger going down as I had going up. My opinion after the fact is that we were unwise in our decision to attempt the climb when it was clearly out of season. That being said, I don't think it was unreasonable to think that we could climb it and I still think it can be climbed in those conditions (just not the first gendarme). I still have little respect for Smoot's opinion of the climb. It is, contrary to words, a reasonable route (in season) but does have long sections where pro will be marginal. Perhaps this year we will return to savor this prized route in better conditions. In the mean time I must be happy with one of my most glorious defeats.

Texplorer's Recommendations on climbing The Leaning Tower Day 1 1) observe gumbie parties with binocs leaving cams on route. Day 2 2) rack up only aliens, a few BDs, and cam hooks 3) get alpine start, short fix, no haulbag 4) booty lots of gear, drink water left by gumbies 5) top out and head down to the pizza deck by evening Day 3 1) put sign up at Camp 4 board "selling 2 new cam" 2) use money for more pizza and King Cobras

I guess you WA folk can't continue claiming that you have the sickest and the most difficult approaches anymore

Stop visiting porno sites

I have climbed at Smith this time of year. Its not too bad but then again I'm from warmer clims anyway. That is sweet that Madrone is open. I may have to make a visit soon.

My bad then to Senor Natedog, Flagstone is a little over an hours drive to the east of Eugene. Still marginally attractive to someone living in Portland since you could be at Smith in the same amount of time.

Natey, are you really wanting to drive all the way down here into Orygon to climb some overbolted slabs from beautiful Bellingham. Go to squamish and climb some quality moss.

Are the bolts chopped or are the hangers removed? Why would someone go to such trouble to "improve" the asthetics of that syringe and condom laden place? You must have some neo-old schoolers gettin busy up there in P-town.

Greetings TG and others, After our little excursion on the 1st gendarme of Yokum last november I thought alot about this same thing. Thinking back I wonder what business I had leading that chossfest. There is something about flirting with disaster that appeals to me I guess. I have had this urge to "push it" since I was young. Maybe its like a gambling addiction. If you have the addiction, you always have the addiction. I don't know how many times I have said, "I am never doing that again," and found myself once again runnout on jingus pro looking at a big whipper or climbing sans rope up some new route. For instance, this last weekend I went up to Squamish to celebrate the 4th weekend Dru-style. We had been climbing on the apron and headed over to the smoke cliffs for some cragging action. It was there that I saw this really splitter "squamish .10a" fingercrack. My partners busied themselves with their harnesses and gear and whatnot and I began to feel a familiar urge. Though I knew this would be a cruiser route for me to lead I wondered if they would think bad of me soloing it. (is he crazy? are we going to have to watch him die, etc) The urge increased with each moment to a tingling frenzy in my fingertips. I just wanted to climb and was annoyed with waiting for them to lead it or to get all the gear ready. Then it happened. I put on my shoes, scrambled up the large step to the start of the climb, and very quitely began with little hesitation. My thoughts were like those of a teenage boy laying his eyes on his first Playboy. I sensed micro beads of sweat forming on my fingertips and attempted to mentally control the pores. I told myself that I would only go up as far as the locker jams would take me but deep down I think I knew I wouldn't come down. The route was actually quite good and while on the short climb I briefly experienced "the zone." It is cliche-ish but when things get really serious I feel more focused and relaxed. The rest of the world falls away and there is only calloused skin and the rock. It is almost as if my consciencousness is experiencing someone else's sensations. My mind has a carefree attitude toward any adverse action that might occur. Afterwards, it is all over very quickly. I am not saying I do this everyday or even regularly but it happens. I, like you, don't really know what to think about it. The other 99% of the time I am a pretty safe climber placing a decent amount of pro and doing what climbers do. What I have tried to do is to think about danger from outside the situation. When I am there, in the moment there are the urges and desires of this other me that, when back on the ground, seem like extreme temptations with danger. Unlike most who are inhibited by danger I am sometimes spurned-on by it. My best strategy has been to truly assess the REAL danger and try to minimize that to levels that will keep me alive and climbing for eons to come. We all know that many have played that same game and lost. It is hard though to just stop gambling when you love being the casino. I can only say that I try to play with style and enough caution to stay in the game for another round. So far so good-

"Ya, that climb very hard, me 4th-sight it." -Czech Mark

First of all if you have a bud you should smoke it. Seriously though, the mountain always has rock and icefall. In summer just make sure you are on the summit at or just before sunrise and get off the top of the mountain as soon as possible. You will avoid the majority of the crowds, climb in cooler weather, and avoid too much exposure to the sun.

A few weeks ago I was walking off the east ledges of el cap and saw a german couple walking down. They asked us what we had climbed and replied that they had been climbing too. I thought this was interesting because they had no climbing gear except their harnesses and a rope. I asked them which route they had gone up and they said they had climbed the falls trail and now they were doing some "extreme rappelling" back down the "scary" east ledges decent.

The Grand Wall- not taking any food though, hope to score some big peregrin eggs. . . ymmmmmmm

What about big walls, rock free-soloing, ice-free-soloing, and TRing.

Greetings all, Wow, this post has taken off in the last few weeks. I just got back from a great trip down to the Yos to find that even "Bolter Dave," as I have heard him called, has degraded to posting on our website. I am actually glad to hear his side of the story. I support Dave in his replacement of old and dangerous bolts especially on popular climbs. I am not entirely opposed ot adding bolts to routes if it doesn't change the nature of the climb and is OK'ed with the first ascensionist. Contrary to my trite and brash posts on this website I am very serious when it comes to bolting and of course chopping bolts. I am not an expert on either but over the last few years have developed strong feelings about the bolting issue. I have spoken with many people, beginners to badasses, and am concerned about the balance we must all play with nature, the govt, and other climbers. First of all, I see the rock, especially in wilderness type areas as a very special place. Shortly after I first got into climbing (yes, I started as soley a bolt clipper), I wanted to show everyone out there the beauty and fun that climbing brought to me. I slowly realized, however, that not everyone held these places with the same esteem which I did. I distinctly remember bringing one friend climbing and he remarked that we should bring a boombox out next time and that they should pave the trails up to the climbs. It was then that I realized that there is a balance and certain sacredness that I felt should be obeyed when climbing not only in wilderness but at all climbing destinations. I still take friends out climbing but I am sure to instill in them what climbing is and that it is not like other sports. Part of the allure of climbing is the fact that there are unkowns, some of them being dangerous, that you must confront and learn to overcome. Overbolting ends many of these challenges FOREVER. I guess I disagree with Dave on several points. My strongest feelings come from the closely bolted climbs I have experienced on the east slab at Flagstone. Yes, I have climbed one of them in which I reached down unclipped a bolt at my feet skipped a bolt at my hips and clipped above me. I know that Dave stated that many people have expessed a desire for such climbs. I do not doubt this. Most beginners, myself included, would like to have more bolts on routes. This, however, has no basis in the long traditions of climbing nor is the predominant thinking of the majority of climbers today. New climbers must learn that most climbs out there have only 8-9 bolts per pitch. That means an average of 8-15ft between bolts. If you need to learn to clip, put up a bolt in your garage and practice clipping. If you need to learn to climb slab, rappel in and set up a toprope. If you need to practice climbing above gear, go climbing with someone who falls on gear alot and suck it up. If your a child who wants to learn to lead, go to a gym or learn to clip off of crimpers. My point is if you are a beginner driver taking your driving test and you can't parallel park you would probably wish the parking spaces were wider. It would be foolish however for the world to change currently satisfactory parking spaces 6ft bigger when that same driver after a little practice and stamina will learn to park in the existing spaces. My second gripe is the proliferation of routes. Just because there is a good line doesn't mean that the route should be bolted. I returned to Flagstone early this year to find what looked like 8-10 routes all in the 5.4-5.7 range in less than 40ft of rock. I thought that maybe 3 routes would be pushing it for that same area. Many of these routes may be very good routes but I believe that the sea of bolts there is just too ugly. Most crags you go to, a tourist might see one, two, or no bolts on the climbs. Flagstone is quite the opposite. I think you should assess an area and develop only the choicest lines, especially if you are rap bolting. I know that chopping bolts is only slighty more asthetic from the ground and not really better at all for climbers on the route to which the holes are obvious. For this reason I am an anti-chopper. I am appalled, though, to hear that even Dave agrees that some of his routes should have fewer bolts. Did you not seriously assess the route beforehand? Once there is a hole, there is always a hole. I would hope that in the future Dave will think more carefully as to which routes should be bolted and where bolts should be BEFORE BOLTING instead of in hindsight. Although I am not really a draconian chopper I have not decided what the fate of the new lines at flagstone should be. If I do decide to chop it will be after several in depth talks with Dave about his routes. If I were to make that decision no amount of rebolting (even with glue-ins) would stop me. I would continue to chop as often as they rebolt. Because this is such an important and weighty decision and responsiblity I am proceeding slowly, cautiously, and with a level head. Although many on this site are tired of the "bolting debate" I am not. I also feel this discussion is more than the theoretical debate because we are talking not about a supposed theoretical bolt 20 pitches up on an obscure route in the waddingtons, but in our own backyard. I would like to hear more from those in the area especially those who have climbed at FS.

Yea, its hard to find good spots to rappel here close.

and an intel guy stepped in fron of the MAX line last year too.

forgot one 7) drop acid and free solo

There are really several simple rules you can follow: 1) know how to place good pro 2) identify situations where good pro is not possible 3) assess your ability to climb the "proless" section and weigh the risks falling (might include death) 4) understand that it is stand practice that most if not all trad routes will require that at some point you climb above your pro which may or may not be sketchy 5) understand that you won't climb most classic 5.10 and up routes if you don't learn to "run it out" every now and then 6) if you make excuses other than these I am subject to ridicule you for your unwillingness to admit you lack the testicular/ovulary fortitude (only as long as I have done the climb or can do the climb upon request) Notice I didn't mention anything about asking your belayer if you should lead this, hauling your dead body away, or skill level associated wit climbing ability. Some people push their limits in a calculated way whilst others have no clue what they are getting into. I have pushed myself in both ways but thankfully have lived to take only the calculated ones now. If you still wonder about how I think you should climb - read the signature.

I don't go on hikes unless they lead to climbing.

I guess that's why the call it the Taquitz/Suicide rocks Decimal Rating system (or TSRDS).

I can't believe I read this entire post. For what's its worth I don't like to take very much of anything except aliens.. . .lots of aliens.

Go for it and don't take your cell phone.