goatboy

Hello again Scott. Thanks for putting forth not only a guide's perspective, but also some local perspective, by the way. Having said that, we may have to agree to disagree on this one. I hear you saying that the bolt is well-hidden (as dan just attested), consciously and intentionally placed, and useful for many people. I agree with all that, but still question its merits based on the reasons I've heard for it. The two arguments I've heard you make for this particular bolt are: 1) A guiding scenario in snow and ice, early season, in which case the bolt adds a great deal of security and efficiency under challenging conditions; 2) The scenario of a novice climber on their first lead feeling more secure after clipping into the bolt. I am sure that in BOTH scenarios the involved parties would be glad to clip that particular bolt, and both feel and be safer as a result. But where does this line of reasoning end? Does it extend to placing more bolts (i.e. in the chimney section down below, which can be quite icy in early season)? To make an extreme point, how about chipping some holds or steps along the arete to make it easier? Just because you can guide it without these add'l bolts or chipped steps doesn't mean that you should deny less confident guides or leaders the security that they would provide....according to the line of reasoning I extrapolate from the earlier posts. Why do they not deserve the security that these simple improvements would offer? And what if these improvements were made by a noted, world-class NW alpinist? If the route is too difficult to guide without adding bolts, should it be guided early season? If the novice leader can't safely lead the route without the added bolt....should they be doing it? You see my line of thinking here I am sure, whether you agree or not... NOTE: Much of this post of mine is ridiculous, inflated sarcasm meant to test the validity of the line of reasoning, NOT an argument for more bolts or chipped holds anywhere, really...

Hey cbs, I understand that this person thought it was a good place to put a bolt, or he wouldn't have put it there. My question has to do with the principle: If a well-respected climber put a bolt somewhere that YOU thought was silly, would it be more okay than an unknown climber putting it there? I'm not talking about this one bolt in particular -- I'm talking about the merit of the person being well-known, or not, giving license or lending credibility to that choice. Your point about the fixed line is a good one -- maybe that was a dumb idea.

Way to hobble out, one bail biner richer! Nice work....sorry to hear about the accident...

Fair enough, Scott -- and well-said -- but there's a difference between arguing against the bolt on SEWS and craving something "hard and runout." The logic of that part of your post is, for me, kinda hard...and runout....to follow. Couldn't that knife-edge section of the S Arete be managed via a short fixed line if that bolt wasn't there, in snowy/icy conditions or if a party's skill level warranted such a strategy? Another question: If a well-respected climber places a bolt in a silly place, does that make it better than an unrespected climber placing a bolt in a silly place? This is nothing personal -- I appreciate all the new route development you've done in the area and the excellent TR's which you post. I am responding to the position you take in your last post, however.

Two goofy YouTube Videos from the Pigeon Spire climb - not sure how to directly link so I'll just paste now and mess with the links later...

Unbelievable...but at the same time, not surprising, somehow....

AND ANOTHER ONE

AND ONE MORE WITH A PHOTO (FROM LAST YEAR I THINK) Seems like this question about the W Ridge Couloir variation comes up about once a month....maybe someone who has the power should just make it one of the sticky threads atop the NC Forum???

Yeah, sorry about the non-chronological report -- that's how my brain seems to work sometimes... It went like this: 8/6 - hike in 8/7 - Pigeon 8/8 - Crescent 8/9 - Pretty cold day with intermittent rain 8/10 - Rather nasty, lightning storm that night 8/11 - Dumping, snowing, hike out.... It was great, but the weather sure coulda been better. You folks made the most of your trip! I think you actually spoke to my buddy Robes (and me) as you were descending the B-S Col -- did you make a joke about a speed record?

Trip: Soggy Bugaboos - Pigeon, Crescent Spire Date: 8/6/2007 Trip Report: I recently enjoyed my second trip to the Bugaboos, with my wife (TeeWa) and partner in crime Robes. The trip was great, though hard. Draggin the pack 3000' up the big hill was only the beginning. That part was okay, because it was expected... What wasn't expected was what local guidebook author Marc Piche called "undoubtedly the worst week of weather the entire summer." We got rain....and wind.....and more rain.....and lightning......and that was the first of three bad weather days, over which the temps dropped, visibility plummetted (like our spirits) and rain turned to sleet, then hail, then outright SNOW, plastering the peaks in verglas and ice.... It was silly. But before all THAT hit the fan, we climbed the West Ridge of Pigeon Spire, known as the world's best 5.4 -- for a reason! That thing is impeccable, and amazing, and super fun, despite the high winds (or because of the high winds) that made it more exciting than 5.4 usually is. It was a highlight for me. The next day the weather deteriorated and we decided to climb closer to home, on Crescent Spire. We climbed the McTech Arete, a lovely route which Robes dragged us up in rain and graupel. It was full value for 5.10- and featured alpine-style cragging with splitter cracks, steep-dump-truck handjams, roofs, and fixed belays/rap anchors. We rapped off in the rain and wandered back to camp for a 10 PM dinner (after our crack of noon start). The next three days got worse and worse and after lots of coffee, gummy bears (which Canadians call "jub jubs") and many hands of tent-bound poker... ...we limped out Friday AM, cutting things short by a day. We originally were headed for WA Pass, but realizing the time and our energy levels, ended up making a marathon drive the long way from the Bugaboos to Wenatchee, and climbed at the Pearly Gates in Leavenworth before finally arriving home not too late Saturday night... Summary: Fabulous place, great company, fun times, but pretty cold, wet weather...on the other hand, I have a friend who has been to the Bugs 6 times and only managed to climb a handful of things (due to similarly bad weather) so I guess we were lucky (?) Gear Notes: Lots of feathers and fats Approach Notes: Road washouts are now in pretty good shape -- lots of 2WD cars in the lot!

Hey Seahawks, It's really the people and lawmakers of Seattle who are allowing the new owners to take the Sonics away -- not the NBA. In fact, the NBA may be one of the few entities able to find a way to keep the team here! Another way of saying, Starbucks sucks...

You have seen it before -- that's one of the 50 CROWDED climbs... The photo is looking up the NE Ridge of Bugaboo spire...

As the snow recedes, you can get cliffed out during the descent -- but if you scope the route well from the top of the East Ridge (near the big gen-darme) you should do well.

Lovely photos and very nice choice of routes! Makes me want to go do the exact same trip you did... Thanks! goatboy

It's a little stressful the first time because it's super exposed and kinda loose in places -- but generally, not bad. It's engaging, that's for sure! I wouldn't do it with folks who aren't comfortable scrambling/4th-classing very exposed terrain. Beta: Do 5 rappels and then basically traverse, following occasional cairns but generally just going across the NE Face until regaining the ridge crest via a gully (or the rock rib just west of the gully). I've heard of people simulclimbing across here but it seems like a bad idea since the rock is loose and pro would be scarce... If I only had 1 rope, I would likely got NE Face vs W Ridge...

Are you suggesting that BC is prettier than....Spokane??? Yeah -- mapquest is confirming what you are saying -- Sandpoint seems QUICKER by 1.5 hours or so, but maybe I'll take the pretty drive instead....at least, on the way back! Thanks for the confirmation.

Hello, Last time I drove to the Bugs was from Portland, and we had a friend to visit in Sandpoint -- so we went that way. I am wondering if there's any consensus (I doubt it!) about the fastest way to get to the Bugs from Seattle -- via Spokane/Sandpoint, or cross the border first and go east on major Canadian hwy? Thanks to anyone with an informed opinion!

I never saw any good ice for screws when I climbed it a few years ago -- but a picket might have been useful... felt pretty secure with crampons and two ice tools, though!

BUMP - latest road conditions??? Thanks, Goats

Off the top of my head, I seem to remember the Skoogs climbing some of the ribs to the WEST of the NW Face route, but not sure about the rib to the East....nor do I have the red bible here at work (they'd fire me the same day -- hey, maybe that's not a bad idea!?!?)

Okay. Hey Brian Burdo, what's the deal with your guidebook? Thanks, Goatboy on behalf of lots of people who might be interested

I called Feathered Friends, 2nd Ascent, and Vertical World to find a copy -- the word is that it won't be out until August or later.... tick tock, tick tock, the interminable wait for the promised Burdo guide continues.... Apparently, early copies were handed out at a Mazama event so folks could provide some feedback on the book before it went to press. Anyone get an advance copy???

...and sometimes there are huge snow formations on the ridge which someone once called "snow whales" !!!

Nice photos and good work on the climb.

The skagit gneiss of Triumph is edgy and positive, making great holds for hands and feet. It is very enjoyable climbing, often exposed, though usually very easy (except for the one steep pitch pictured in the TR, which is relatively short). I think it's a must-do climb for the total experience -- the views, the scenic (though long-ish) approach, the short glacier crossing leading to the long, moderate ridge -- sounds like Forbidden Peak, kind of, but I would say not nearly as good quality climbing. Having said that, I'm not likely to rush back to do it AGAIN...but I'm glad to have done it once and recommend it.