new rap station on South Face Jello tower

[Raindawg]

Anchors were added to Castle Rock, not bolts to routes. Anchors so that more routes are available to climb. The anchor on BB doesn't change its character in any way.

 

That anchor next to a protectable crack only serves to bail-out the weenies who aren't up to climbing Brass Balls...seems to me there are other reasonable escapes.

 

Oh, and despite Das Muzak being a sport route, I've only seen one person leading it, like three years ago. There's never a line waiting to lead that one.

 

Sport routes of any kind don't belong on Castle Rock. The Icicle is being ruined by them and expect to see them soon on Snow Creek Wall, etc.

 

Cut the hyperbole. These anchors clearly have not spelled the doom of Castle Rock.

 

But it sets a precedent. Another precedent is what happened to the bolts added to DDD to dumb it down. CHOP! I would not be surprised by more of this:

 

 

 

[Raindawg]

Ok guys...

I placed that anchor on jello tower.

 

I'm sorry that it ruined your day to hear about a clean two bolt anchor at a crag you never go to.

 

What you don't understand, bro....is it ain't clean. Sorry to be the one to give you the history lesson....

 

http://climbaz.com/chouinard72/chouinard.html'>http://climbaz.com/chouinard72/chouinard.html

 

Read the entire catalog and then come back and tell us why what they said over 40 years ago isn't right-on, or why you now think what you are doing is appropriate. And p.s......feel free to substitute "bolts" for "pitons" in the essays.

 

Once again...

http://climbaz.com/chouinard72/chouinard.html

 

[genepires]

if I move to leavenworth, can I spraypaint the rock?

 

I while I am not really against the added anchors, I do feel uneasy when I hear that people that live within 30 miles of the crag feel that they have some kind of authority in the area. It is public land, not locals land. This attitude does not serve the sport well.

[Pete_H]

It is public land, not locals land. This attitude does not serve the sport well.

 

I agree. I don't support localism or think locals have any special authority over the crag. However, these are anchors that will be used and appreciated by all visitors to Castle, and as far as I'm concerned, has nothing to do with locals vs. non-locals.

[Pete_H]

 

But it sets a precedent. Another precedent is what happened to the bolts added to DDD to dumb it down. CHOP! I would not be surprised by more of this:

 

 

 

Funny thing is, of the group that chopped DDD, I don't think any of them even climb anymore. I would not be surprised if the route was re-bolted again.

[JensHolsten]

Just my two cents...and no, I am no more a local to Castle than any other person who ties in there. The whole "local" mentality is bs in my opinion.

 

I do not appreciate seeing new bolts at Castle Rock (unless they were placed by the first ascentionist or with their direct blessing). There are so many places where it is appropriate to place bolts, but Castle is the last place in the state where things like this should be happening.

 

I've climbed all the mentioned routes many times without the convenience of the new anchors. I never, ever, ever even thought about bolts being needed in these spots. It all seemed pretty "convenient" to me in the first place.

 

John and Shaun: you guys are my friends and I really don't care about the new bolts you guys placed, but I wouldn't have played my cards the way you did.

 

See you out there!

 

 

Edited October 15, 2013 by JensHolsten

[Verticolorful]

I in no way intended to make this into a locals versus non local argument.

 

As you see my actions do not reflect the views of all other locals.

 

I understand and respect everyone's opinion; just like many things in life there are two sides to the argument.

 

Unforunitaly I already drilled the holes and placed a Fixe wedge bolt in each one. If someone feels so compelled to chop them please consider the fact that the holes are already in the rock. Removing the bolts will leave scars that will always be visible (even if you use epoxy and dust).

 

From the bottom of my heart, I am sorry.

 

I only intended to share climbing with people that love it as much as we do.

 

It leaves me feeling very drained to see so many people getting upset, when I (in my mind) was trying to do good.

 

PM me if you wanna hate some more, and stop making us all look like whinny little kids.

[Hummerchine]

I was involved in placing the rap station at the top of Brass Balls, and I am proud of our fine workmanship and contribution to the climbing community. I am surprised to hear of those who dislike it; until now I have heard nothing but very positive feedback. After 35 years of extensive climbing I've only placed a handful of bolts; a rappel station at the top of BB not only seemed like a no-brainer, but will likely save someone's life at some point. My close friend who helped should be dead right now from pulling off a loose block on the dangerous, loose, poorly protected choss above BB. Headfirst fall on to a ledge with no pro, the rope miraculously catching on a rock protrusion nearly cutting through...how again did he survive?

 

I apologize to the few; feel free to not use it. The overwhelming majority are gonna LOVE this new rap station!

 

Tom Michael

[Raindawg]

Just about any rock climb can be made safer or more convenient by adding fixed pro/anchors. Folks at Castle Rock, though, have been climbing (and falling) for years without the new additions, and such permanent installations are especially unwelcome next to cracks. What's next?

Bolts tend to breed.

[num1mc]

......... on the dangerous, loose, poorly protected choss above BB......

 

Exaggerate much?

[pope]

I was involved in placing the rap station at the top of Brass Balls, and I am proud of our fine workmanship and contribution to the climbing community. I am surprised to hear of those who dislike it; until now I have heard nothing but very positive feedback. After 35 years of extensive climbing I've only placed a handful of bolts; a rappel station at the top of BB not only seemed like a no-brainer, but will likely save someone's life at some point. My close friend who helped should be dead right now from pulling off a loose block on the dangerous, loose, poorly protected choss above BB. Headfirst fall on to a ledge with no pro, the rope miraculously catching on a rock protrusion nearly cutting through...how again did he survive?

 

I apologize to the few; feel free to not use it. The overwhelming majority are gonna LOVE this new rap station!

 

Tom Michael

 

Tom, I suggest you buy your friend a helmet and tell him to test every hold. Bolts at the Brass Balls belay would not have added one ounce of safety to your friend's ascent to Logger's Ledge. Instead, bolts would have provided a means by which your friend could escape passage through some 4th-class terrain which every rock climber should know how safely to ascend. And please remove the anchor you constructed so that somebody doesn't have to clean up your trash.

[keenwesh]

I climbed BB for the first time in august and thought the convenience bolts were great. It's a crag, deal with it.

[Raindawg]

I climbed BB for the first time in august and thought the convenience bolts were great. It's a crag, deal with it.

 

 

Many of us first climbed BB many years ago, many times, and we didn't need the convenience bolts nor will this traditionally relatively clean "crag" become another victim to lazy sport-bolting.(And do you really think that your self-defined "crag" status allows the right for anyone to add permanent fixtures on public property at their pleasure??)

 

Dude...YOU deal with it!

 

[telemarker]

God I really should just let this thread fade into obscurity...

 

I'm just waiting for you guys to invoke the Bachar/Yerian. See latest issue of Rock and Ice.

 

At least Pope makes a reasoned argument. He's even free soloed Brass Balls I think, so he has some 'skin in the game' as they say these days.

 

Raindawg you're just a caricature of yourself who should have just stayed in retirement.

 

Whatever happens to that anchor I no linger give a rip. It's still a great pitch of climbing!

[ZONK]

No respect for the person who started this thread.

 

It does not really matter if its there or not when it comes down to it.

 

If someone "chops" it they only are doing it to increase the size of there own balls.

 

 

 

 

[Raindawg]

Raindawg you're just a caricature of yourself who should have just stayed in retirement.

 

Thanks for the insult...it contributed little.

I've participated minimally at best on this site for many months because of attitudes such as yours (and a good number of others have likewise left.). But I happen to genuinely care about Castle Rock where I have climbed since 1976, and where most of the routes have been spared the nonsense taking place just about everywhere else in Leavenworth, or, actually, most any other American "crag". The concept of "clean climbing" or "leave little or not trace" is regularly rejected by many climbers (that is, if it's even known or understood) in preference for convenience in the form of permanent traces. It's sickening, and ironically, it's "The Man" who seems to notice such things, rather than climbers, and restrictions are increasing.

 

Whatever happens to that anchor I no linger give a rip. It's still a great pitch of climbing!

 

If you "no linger give a rip", why comment?

[olyclimber]

Change....so frightening, isn't it? Especially when you get older.

[rob]

I would respect raindawg a lot more if he didn't give the impression of automatic knee-jerk anti-bolting responses. OMG BOLT? BAD! It's like he can't even think about it, it's just some kind of chemical reaction that bubbles up anytime there is the word "bolt" in a thread. It's almost like a bot. Is he even real?

 

I've asked him directly several times if there was an example of a single bolt anywhere that he agreed with and he's seemingly refused to answer that question, so I suppose I'll talk about him in the 3rd person.

 

Ironically, I used to be pretty anti-bolt when I first started climbing years ago and it's Raindawg's attitude that has directly led me to viewing bolts from a more favorable perspective.

[Fairweather]

Ironically, I used to be pretty anti-bolt when I first started climbing years ago and it's Raindawg's attitude that has directly led me to viewing bolts from a more favorable perspective.

 

Now there's a great reason to amend your standards and ethics. Sounds like you'll make a great addition to Seattle's growing faux-bavarian suburb someday. I hear they grant "local" status on day one!

[ScottP]

 

Ironically, I used to be pretty anti-bolt when I first started climbing years ago and it's Raindawg's attitude that has directly led me to viewing bolts from a more favorable perspective.

 

This is such an adolescent mindset.

It's cool until the dweebs begin to like it, then it's not so cool.

[olyclimber]

Could be that after viewing one person's inflexible and radical view point and experiencing revulsion it causes you to reflect and reexamine your own view points and perhaps come to a different conclusion.

 

Personally, I think the juveniles are the people that are utterly set in concrete with some polarized viewpoint, and are incapable of recognizing that the oppositions view may in fact have some merits. Minds are like parachutes, etc.

 

But that doesn't take away from the fact that Rob is a juvenile and mental midget.

[abarlow]

I believe adding an additional anchor to get off Jello tower is unnecessary. Convenience bolting is not a good way to protect the character of the crag for future generations. I don't think it's really about protecting the rock so much as the character of the crag. There is plenty of room on top of the tower as it is.

 

However, I am a heavy believer in replacing frequently used rappel stations (those with old tat) with bolts. This is cleaner and more eco-friendly.

 

The new brass balls anchor is not in a place where people frequently rappelled and therefore changes the nature of the crag. This shouldn't be taken lightly as many folks enjoy climbing these areas because of the traditional character they offer.

 

Just my opinion.

[chirp]

Wow...another bolting thread. This is pretty much why I don't really climb OR lurk here anymore, too much bullshit, too many sportos and too many people.

Good to see RD, pope, and FF back on the boards

I'll stick to fly fishing.

 

[rob]

 

Ironically, I used to be pretty anti-bolt when I first started climbing years ago and it's Raindawg's attitude that has directly led me to viewing bolts from a more favorable perspective.

 

This is such an adolescent mindset.

It's cool until the dweebs begin to like it, then it's not so cool.

 

pssh, your mom is adolescent.

 

Haven't you ever noticed somebody doing something retarded, and then realized, "wait, I do that too!" and then been disgusted and tried to become someone better? You must have been born perfect

[Fairweather]

Be more like these...

 

 

Less like these...