RobBob Posted December 18, 2002 Share Posted December 18, 2002 I worked pretty hard this year in the gym to build strength, and am pretty satisfied with the results. With Twight's book as inspiration, I have built a lot of upper body strength, and can lift the equivalent weight of me and my pack easily on lat pulls, etc. But about 3 weeks ago, I screwed up. I added a pectoral 'fly' machine to my routine, I guess with too much weight, and since then, I can put my finger right on a sore point on top of my shoulder. My question is, what can I do to heal this without stopping the weight training entirely? I like what I'm doing, and don't want to lose the edge. But that soreness is not going away. (I did of course stop doing the pec fly.) Any ideas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allthumbs Posted December 18, 2002 Share Posted December 18, 2002 massage therapy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg_W Posted December 18, 2002 Share Posted December 18, 2002 Just do the lat pulls with one arm!!! That's what Twight would do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobBob Posted December 18, 2002 Author Share Posted December 18, 2002 good one, trask. I honestly hadn't thought about that for this particular ache. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg_W Posted December 18, 2002 Share Posted December 18, 2002 Massage is a good one. I, personally, would scale it back a bit so as not to overburden the sore shoulder and also to avoid an over-compensation injury to the healthy shoulder. Ibuprofen before workouts and maybe ice after workouts, would also help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allthumbs Posted December 18, 2002 Share Posted December 18, 2002 Yeah Rob, and I was actually being serious for once. I love getting a good massage now and then; really takes the kinks out...and I'm talking about the real ones. I dated a massage therapist for about six months. It was awesome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freeclimb9 Posted December 18, 2002 Share Posted December 18, 2002 Were you exercising the extensor muscles during your weight program? You might simply have an imbalance. (with the little information you provided, this seems likely since you have just added a fly to your routine). Military press, back butterfly, incline press, shrugs, raises, etc. will all help stabilize the shoulder. As with any exercise, form is the most important part, IMO; It's better to lift a light weight correctly than a heavy one incorrectly. You're trying to isolate a muscle group and work it, not set a record, or impress the chica in the halter top. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Courtenay Posted January 18, 2003 Share Posted January 18, 2003 Late, I know, but if you're still bothered by the shoulder/pec, you could try regular dumbbell presses (flat or incline) just lowering the weight so your elbows are at about 90 degrees (i.e. don't bring the weight all the way down to the shoulders as that can stretch an already tender area too much). Presses don't provide quite as much stretch as flyes -- perhaps you brought the weight back too far--easy to do on a machine that has you start from the pre-stretched position, and easy to do if you're working with dumbbells that are too heavy. Good stretches for the chest can also help, especially if you're doing primarily pulling movements and not a lot of horizontal or vertical pressing. Update us on your condition if you like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobBob Posted April 29, 2003 Author Share Posted April 29, 2003 Owww. I backed off weight training for about 45 days, and gradually resumed it during past 3-4 weeks. But I'm right back to having some specific tendon(?) pain at the top of my left shoulder bones. I never did the dumbells per Courtenay (guess that makes me the dumbell), and the only press I have done is military, because for some reason it hurts less than chest press. I guess I should seek the advice of a sports-med Dr. At any rate, the pain level is only a 3-4 out of 10, and I can continue to work out w/o problem. Probably shouldn't, but hate to stop! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PLC Posted April 29, 2003 Share Posted April 29, 2003 If you're living anywhere near Seattle, make an appointment with the UW Elbow & Shoulder Clinic. Supposedly, they are the best shoulder doctors on Earth. I had chronic shoulder pain for years which my normal doctors couldn't diagnose, and which was not helped in the least by massage therapy. It took about 15 minutes at the UW before they realized that I actually had two extra ribs (cervical ribs) which were blocking blood and nerve signal flow. A couple months' PT later and not only do my shoulders no longer hurt, but hands don't go numb when I'm climbing either... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Posted April 29, 2003 Share Posted April 29, 2003 RB - Where exactly is the pain? At the a/c joint - the outside end of the colar bone where it meets the scapula or in the shoulder joint itself? I've had some problems with both that got resolved. A/c joint flareups are a common problem with big-time weight lifters, or the weekend warrior overdoing it. Problems in the rotator cuff are often associated with overtraining of muscle groups and low flexibility. I would go with the previous advice and get some PT guidance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lummox Posted April 29, 2003 Share Posted April 29, 2003 Post deleted by Courtenay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobBob Posted April 29, 2003 Author Share Posted April 29, 2003 Thanks guys. (except you, lummox...you big...lummox) I think it's probably time to see somebody. This very specific point of pain seems to be right on top of the shoulder joint itself or maybe slightly in front of the top. Interesting comment on hand numbness. I sometimes have finger numbness (both hands) after sleeping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtn_mouse Posted April 29, 2003 Share Posted April 29, 2003 RobBob said: shoulder joint itself or maybe slightly in front of the top. finger numbness (both hands) after sleeping. Carpal Tunnel Syndrome! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisT Posted April 29, 2003 Share Posted April 29, 2003 Rob have you tried some good old-fashion painkillers? I've had chronic shoulder pain for a loooooong time but when it's acting up I just pop a naproxen. Also get the finger/hand numbness upon awakening. You are not alone in your aging pain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Flash_Amazing Posted April 29, 2003 Share Posted April 29, 2003 RobBob said: Thanks guys. (except you, lummox...you big...lummox) I think it's probably time to see somebody. This very specific point of pain seems to be right on top of the shoulder joint itself or maybe slightly in front of the top. Interesting comment on hand numbness. I sometimes have finger numbness (both hands) after sleeping. A pint of Bridgeport Porter says you got either: a) buggered rotator cuff b) buggered biceps tendon ... and you're gonna need: a) a bunch of physical therapy with rubber bands, and anti-inflammatories b) surgery followed by lengthy and painful recovery with physical therapy, rubber bands, and anti-inflammatories Pray for a speedy death or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skyclimb Posted April 29, 2003 Share Posted April 29, 2003 Like my dad always told me "Just poor some robotusin on that, it'll fix it." Dad my head hurts "poor some tusin on that son." Dad My knee hurts "poor some tusin on it". Shoulders?? poor some tusin on it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sketchfest Posted April 29, 2003 Share Posted April 29, 2003 I think you meant to Say Windex. Windex will cure anything, cancer, herpes, acne, whatever ails ya, just spray some Windex on it and you'll be fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobBob Posted April 30, 2003 Author Share Posted April 30, 2003 Heard about windex; robitussin's a new one. Of course, these are all modern-day versions of those two old cure-alls: 1) turpentine 2) sulfur I did meet an old carpenter once who used to spray WD40 on his joints for the author-itis. DFA, I hope you're wrong! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lummox Posted April 30, 2003 Share Posted April 30, 2003 lobbob, when i get a tweaker in my shoulder, i keep doing range of motion shit --as long as its pain free. humans used to not have surgical intervention for their aches and pains yet they somehow got by. just keep using it. though i havent done it, friends say swimming really helps them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skyclimb Posted May 5, 2003 Share Posted May 5, 2003 Some people are prescribed ganja for joint aches. I have been told that this can be very theraputic for muscle and joint ailments. Also try taking your arm behing your back, and raising you hand up the middle of your back. This is a good stretch for your rotator cuff. This is a common climbing ailment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Flash_Amazing Posted May 5, 2003 Share Posted May 5, 2003 lummox said: humans used to not have surgical intervention for their aches and pains yet they somehow got by. Yeah, they suffered along with ruined joints that didn't function properly and never would. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norman_Clyde Posted May 6, 2003 Share Posted May 6, 2003 (edited) Dr_Flash_Amazing said: lummox said: humans used to not have surgical intervention for their aches and pains yet they somehow got by. Yeah, they suffered along with ruined joints that didn't function properly and never would. You got that right. They got by... miserably. In fact, they still do, lots of them. RobBob, if you really have a spot on your shoulder that is sore to the touch, it's probably your AC joint, which is a much lesser problem than the rotator cuff. The AC joint doesn't really move, at least it's not supposed to. A few very unlucky individuals end up with chronic pain here, and the solution is -- very simple, really-- to surgically remove the entire joint. People can get along without this one. Rotator cuff injuries usually do not hurt to the touch, because the injured tendons are beneath the bony structures (like the AC joint) and can't be touched from outside. But I agree that you need an exam to tell for sure. It would definitely be worth your while to find out what is wrong, just so you have a more precise prognosis and more specific exercise guidelines. If your shoulder hurts in front, not on top, it's more likely to be the biceps tendon, like DFA says. (Is he a genuine doctor or what?) Edited May 6, 2003 by Norman_Clyde Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glassgowkiss Posted May 6, 2003 Share Posted May 6, 2003 if your shoulder hurts on the top you very common problem is "painful arc" syndrome. it's an inflammation in superspinatus or the tendon of the muscle. it's quite common to have the whole thing start with levator scapulae (in your neck). first of all ice the hell out of it for at least few days. second, get it checked out and get the proper diadnosis and treatment. could be long head of the biceps brachi, also pectoralis minor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glassgowkiss Posted May 6, 2003 Share Posted May 6, 2003 Norman_Clyde said: RobBob, if you really have a spot on your shoulder that is sore to the touch, it's probably your AC joint, which is a much lesser problem than the rotator cuff. The AC joint doesn't really move, at least it's not supposed to. A few very unlucky individuals end up with chronic pain here, and the solution is -- very simple, really-- to surgically remove the entire joint. People can get along without this one. Rotator cuff injuries usually do not hurt to the touch, because the injured tendons are beneath the bony structures . Norman- i know you're an md, but before you talk "facts" like that, please check your anatomy. recommend Netter or Platzer. All the rotator cuff muscle tendons are palpable WITHOUT any problems, they are attached to humerus, remember?? and saying that you can get by without AC joint is like saying you can get by without colen. you know ... the bag...but i don't think you'll be climbing very much in either case Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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