Beware of Chinese crap hangers

[glassgowkiss]

HERE

Looks like another high quality gear from China. I might add Metolius is one of the few companies producing gear here in the US. On the other hand Black Diamond moved all their production offshore, that includes China.

[matt_warfield]

It's a big problem. And lets remember how Black Diamond changed from Chouinard via lawsuit for a dude unbuckling his harness while climbing. Hardware and software in climbing is really important. Last I checked the Chinese own most of our national debt, dominate low cost manufacturing, and have a billion population of which few are climbers.

 

We are slowly losing our heritage of designing and manufacturing our own stuff, being climbing or otherwise. Think Rome. Let's get our shit together pretty soon.

 

 

Edited April 27, 2013 by matt_warfield

[KirkW]

Yeah, that there is some real classy journalism.

 

Their linked source is a thread at rocknoob.com full of unsubstantiated conjecture, claims of testing and pics of a couple broken hangers.

 

I'm thinking invading china and stealing everything would be a perfectly reasonable response to this earth shattering news.

[glassgowkiss]

your response reminds me of the Colorado Hardware and their Alien debacle. Regardless how you slice it, a hanger should not crack like that- period. If the force would be big enough, there should be a deformity of the shape, before material failure. And what "unsubstantiated conjecture" are talking? Are you blind? This picture says everything.

[ScaredSilly]

Just for clarification. Something does not need to deform before it cracks. Bolts hangers take a shock load which is very different loading than a static load. It is all about the energy absorption.

 

As for the issue at hand probably a substandard batch of steel. Which is why QC is so important - trust but verify.

[matt_warfield]

Just for clarification. Something does not need to deform before it cracks. Bolts hangers take a shock load which is very different loading than a static load. It is all about the energy absorption.

 

As for the issue at hand probably a substandard batch of steel. Which is why QC is so important - trust but verify.

 

It is that most climbers trust and don't verify. It is very important for hardware suppliers to make safe products and for climbers to keep things up. There should be no question about whether it is a shock load or static or a 100 ft fall. Good hardware will handle all for a long time.

Edited April 28, 2013 by matt_warfield

[rat]

thanks for the info, bob. climbing isn't safe and anyone who thinks so is a dumbfuck. got any stories about climbing grass in poland? seriously, i'm intrigued.

 

regarding the supremacy of "american made": smc and leeper don't get off easily. and the aluminum clip'emeveryfuckingtime pop-top hangers?

 

the odds are against you, now and in your limited future.

[glassgowkiss]

Rat, it's not 70's anymore. Yes, I agree- climbing is dangerous, but selling sub- standard bolt hangers is simply not acceptable at this day and age. Climbing gear moved from a garage operation to real manufacturing, with material match testing and all the ISO9000 blessings. To me it is important, that if I am on a run-out pitch, I don't want to worry, of my cam fall apart in case I take w whipper. The same thing- if I am sport climbing- I don't want worry if the hangers are strong enough.

selling shit, because you want cut corners on costs of manufacturing should be branded and companies like that should be kicked to the curb.

[glassgowkiss]

Just for clarification. Something does not need to deform before it cracks. Bolts hangers take a shock load which is very different loading than a static load. It is all about the energy absorption.

 

As for the issue at hand probably a substandard batch of steel. Which is why QC is so important - trust but verify.

I have work at Metolius in the past and they use ISO9000, which requires material and product batch testing. And nobody in climbing industry will accept static load testing. Most likely it was a combination of weak material, combined with bad forging, but again- that should have been caught before the hangers went into circulation.

[rat]

i advocate "curb stomping" though it might be less politically correct.

 

your abilities (and luck) take precedent over your pro.

 

good luck.

[Jens]

Thanks for bringing this info about the hangers to light.

 

I heard a rumor that BD moved all of their production to China.

[KirkW]

Thanks for bringing this info about the hangers to light.

 

I heard a rumor that BD moved all of their production to China.

 

That rumor is false.

 

They moved some of it to china. They still have a facility in Salt Lake. They are also building in their own factories and not just contracting the work to China so I'd think its a bit disingenuous to try to lump BD in with the likes of ClmbX.

 

 

[billcoe]

Thanks for the heads up Bob. The fast corrosion issues could be that they are not passivising them as well. Regardless, good stuff to avoid, even though the price is soooooo nice.

 

Here's the thread on that hanger. http://www.rockclimbing.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=2624440;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;page=unread#unread

Climb X responded:

"The Facts so Far:

 

This is the first report of a possible hanger problem.

 

Climb X produces both steel and stainless steel Hangers.

 

We have requsted the hangers in question be returned for evaluation and testing.

 

Testing is also in progress on other productions of hangers, our brand and others. No problems can be found with the current stock other than the indoor hangers will corode more rapidly in a wet or salt/coastal enviroment (not intended for outdor use)

 

Both styles of hangers have been on the market for several years. Steel for indoors and stainless for outdoors.

 

The report our office recieved stated one hanger but showed several photos of the hanger.

 

The Hangers are produced in Tawian where many other hangers are produced. Some of the other hangers are mentioned in this thread. Taiwan materials were used.

 

The question was what can cause this? Lots of possibilities. Steel hangers could have been unknowingly used instead of stainless. Often bolts/hangers in Asia are hammered to keep people from being able to remove/steal them, a material flaw, exsessive load, they could have been tampered with, production issue, missuse, reaction between the bolt and the hanger, these are some of the reasons. We will post again when we have useful information.

 

We have posted a warning on our website for people purchasing Hangers to only use the stainless for outdoors. The Heat treated steel are for indoor/gym use.

 

Thanks for your patience to those of you with serious interest.

 

Climb X Gear

 

 

Saw this report over there, Petzl biner breaking. http://www.rockclimbing.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_view_flat;post=2622082;page=1;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;mh=25;

 

[RaisedByPikas]

Just for clarification. Something does not need to deform before it cracks. Bolts hangers take a shock load which is very different loading than a static load. It is all about the energy absorption.

 

Bolt hangars don't take a "shock" load in the sense that most climbers define because the rope is what controls the force. Obviously if you take a fall directly onto your personal anchor, climb with a static rope, or something like that then it might be different.

 

A true shock load in the engineering sense where failures happen without deformity do the the interaction of the shock or pressure waves within the piece probably doesn't happen much in climbing even with a fall on static gear.

[Off_White]

That's why I prefer to leave a bare stud, and you can just put your own wired stopper over it: you know the history of that stopper but have no idea about the background on that pre-existing hanger.

[Pete_H]

the odds are against you, now and in your limited future.

 

[tvashtarkatena]

Looks to me like it may have gotten tagged with a falling rock or somebody's highly motivated hammer. The crack may have propagated from the work hardened area near the bend (likely with anyone's hanger under too much load), but it sure looks like somebody or something may have wailed on that thing. Complete conjecture on my part, of course.

 

Some grades of stainless will rust, albeit comparatively slowly. Does this typically affect their strength over the short term? Nah, not much.

 

But now I'm all confused...is STAINLESS!!! the Debbil's spawn, or is it not?

 

More innernut pics, unburdened by context, pumped up by the viral mavens, should clear this up right quick. I recommend putting out a world-wide call for broken ClimbX hangers on all english speaking climbing sites around the world - you'll likely get one or two more examples - they probably won't even be ClimbX hangers but they will become so over time - enough to definitively prove your case for all time.

 

And Bob, Dog luv ya, stick to PT. Analysis of material failure is clearly not your forte.

 

The hanger material may well be crap...or not. Just a wee bit more than a photo and a rant will likely be required to find out.

 

That, and "Will my bolt hanger hold?" is just about the last thing I'm thinking about when bustin a fly move for my next GoPro Cannes offering.

Edited May 21, 2013 by tvashtarkatena