CaleHoopes Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 Folks, I've had great experience with Gingko Biloba & Ibuprofen for altitude. Way safer than the Diamox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ADKMan Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 Folks, I've had great experience with Gingko Biloba & Ibuprofen for altitude. Way safer than the Diamox. Â But is taking Ginko and Ibuprofen cheating? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaleHoopes Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 Absolutely. I cheat when I can. Because I have no delusions of grandeur of having a full page in American Alpine Journal of my first ascent of Mailbox Peak without supplemental oxygen, Diamox, water and trekking poles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CascadeClimber Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 This conversation is starting to remind me of the "(fill in the blank) is aid" thing that went through this site years ago. I still truck that line out on partners every once in a while, usually to a bewildered silent stare: "What? You have boots? Boots are aid!" Â Hey, when we first crawled out of the ocean we didn't have legs. Legs are cheating! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScaredSilly Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 Climbing at altitude causes blood doping. You are all a bunch frickin cheaters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
layton Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 The whole argument hinges on whether you climb for yourself or for others. Â If you climb for others (profit, attention, or competition) then I agree. Â If you climb for yourself then who gives a fuck what you do or how you climb as long as you don't ruin it for others. Â I listened to a comedian who made a very interesting point. With advances in equipment and training, top end athlete are pretty much performing at their genetic potential. Might as well just give out a medal for "the tallest" person, or allow and encourage doping and see what we're really capable of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
layton Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 btw, there are a ton of holes in Twight's obviously meant to ruffle feathers piece. Â I'm sure the ethics committe will invalidate accomplishments on a case by case basis. Â all our accomplishments, failures, and lives are predetermined by genetics and the laws of physics anyaway. Free will can't exist. That article posted from the CAJ makes a most excellent point about the element of luck. Â I also heard there's something going on in Syria or something Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivan Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 damn straight - yet only the kwisatz haderach may quest to climb the olympus mons in the purest of styles!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Choada_Boy Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 (edited) Wasn't it Washington climbers that were using a winch on the E. Face of Everest? Style setting standard there... Â Â On the same climb: Â "I think we could have done it without [bottled oxygen]...we made a conscious decision to use it in terms of safety." -George Lowe Edited January 30, 2013 by Choada_Boy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B Deleted_Beck Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 Who? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 It seems to me that much of the discussion here has missed Twight's point. Â Breathing supplemental oxygen is fundamentally different than carrying an ice axe or a goose down sleeping bag in that it is not simply a piece of equipment in the same manner that a piece of gear makes it easier but that it actually increases the performance of the performer. Â I still think Hillary and Norgay first climbed Everest, and I'm a fan of Willi Unsoeld, but there is some merit to this notion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Choada_Boy Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 Who? Â "The first successful ascent of the Kangshung Face was made in 1983 by an American expedition led by James D. Morrissay. After five and a half weeks of effort, Kim Momb, Carlos Buhler, and Louis Reichardt summited on 8 October, 1983. George Lowe, Dan Reid and Jay Cassell summited the next day." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Choada_Boy Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 Is climbing to high camp with a plastic bag tied over my head then taking it off for the summit push cheating as well? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
layton Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 is it illegal to sell naked photos of myself as a child to perverts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivan Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 (edited) is it illegal to sell naked photos of myself as a child to perverts? since yer parents own the originals, i suppose it depends on wether or not you first obtained their permission? Edited January 30, 2013 by ivan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougd Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaleHoopes Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 (edited) layton, you have the best point. climb for yourself and take all the drugs you want. based on ivan's TR's, I believe he's putting this fully into practice. Edited January 30, 2013 by CaleHoopes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvashtarkatena Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 Is supplemental nitrogen cheating? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt_warfield Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 How many people do you think Twight has irritated and how many has he inspired? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Trick Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 Breathing supplemental oxygen is fundamentally different than carrying an ice axe or a goose down sleeping bag in that it is not simply a piece of equipment in the same manner that a piece of gear makes it easier but that it actually increases the performance of the performer. Â So does food and water. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 Breathing supplemental oxygen is fundamentally different than carrying an ice axe or a goose down sleeping bag in that it is not simply a piece of equipment in the same manner that a piece of gear makes it easier but that it actually increases the performance of the performer. Â So does food and water. Â And those gu packets. CHEATING!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ADKMan Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 Cliff Bars are the worst! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvashtarkatena Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 If I climb for Jesus, and He gets me up the mountain, is that cheating? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tivoli_mike Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 If I climb for Jesus, and He gets me up the mountain, is that cheating? Â Only if Mohammed hasn't moved it first Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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