26 dead in Connecticut elementary school

[matt_warfield]

Tvash,

 

I am mostly on the same page.

 

Regarding this whole situation, I will still say that treatment of mental illness is essential.

 

And when people want the right to have guns, they are rarely talking about assault weapons. Please ban those and not "normal" weapons like a 22 for gophers, 9 mil for protection or shotguns for shooting crows or a 273 to bag deer and elk or a 348 for bears that are attacking.

 

But on the other hand, in the hands of an experienced gunperson, a glock with two clips does the same thing. I don't know what the answer is.

 

And I will still say a mixed martial artist could have killed just as many school children in about the same time.

 

Treat the disease.

Edited December 18, 2012 by matt_warfield

[Jim]

And I will still say a mixed martial artist could have killed just as many school children in about the same time.

 

Treat the disease.

 

What a bunch of crap. If that skinny-assed punk got into the school w/o a gun it would have taken about 3 of those kids to crawl all over him and take out the maggot. Yea, well Jackie Chan could have killed as many - brilliant argument.

 

Bottom line - these shooters are cowards. A gun gives them perceived power that they can then take out whatever false retribution their tweaked minds have concocted. Guns are just way to available in our society.

[KaskadskyjKozak]

What a bunch of crap. If that skinny-assed punk got into the school w/o a gun it would have taken about 3 of those kids to crawl all over him and take out the maggot.

 

Yeah, just ignore the other part of his post. Can't you at least acknowledge common ground, or is this a mental disorder itself?

 

People are agreeing to ban assault weapons, closing gun sale loopholes. Let's hope momentum builds for that.

[ivan]

anyone know if the shooter had any recent vaccinations?

[ivan]

 

People are agreeing to ban assault weapons, closing gun sale loopholes. Let's hope momentum builds for that.

agreed. course...to keep said laws on books will necessitate keeping libturds in office so the other side doesn't cut n' run later under the kinda sunset provisions that killed the original AW ban

[KaskadskyjKozak]

 

People are agreeing to ban assault weapons, closing gun sale loopholes. Let's hope momentum builds for that.

agreed. course...to keep said laws on books will necessitate keeping libturds in office so the other side doesn't cut n' run later under the kinda sunset provisions that killed the original AW ban

 

sunset provisions blow

[prole]

My question is, what makes gun nuts think their lives are so worth protecting?

[KaskadskyjKozak]

 

People are agreeing to ban assault weapons, closing gun sale loopholes. Let's hope momentum builds for that.

agreed. course...to keep said laws on books will necessitate keeping libturds in office so the other side doesn't cut n' run later under the kinda sunset provisions that killed the original AW ban

 

sunset provisions blow

 

And Ivan, correct me but I think the gun sale loopholes have always existed (gun shows, etc). The same rules should apply to private sale as to sale anywhere.

[Crux]

Even Republicans I listen to in the MSM, are agreeing the prudent path forward must include a ban on assault weapons and a closure of gun sale loopholes. But even more remarkably, there's emerging an advocacy to ban ALL semi-automatic firearms, not just those of assault weapon configuration.

 

Meanwhile, we know how to protect schools. The right personnel, executing the right tactics, and it's done. It might not be pretty, in a Mayberry kind of way, but what's pretty today is just a deadly illusion. Better to see broken illusions, than to pick up pieces of broken children.

[AlpineK]

 

It seems to me after 10 pages of Spray the unanimous conclusion is:

 

Some site users hate other site users and love to express their feeling in detail on the board

 

Not quite sure how this resolves problems where guns are an element.

 

If I yell louder and longer than another poster does that make me right?

 

 

[video:youtube]

[dougd]

 

I think an important part of the discussion nationally is proper treatment of the mentally ill, and the funding for it. My exposure to the mental health system is not limited to the year I volunteered at a large mental health facility answering phones on a first call for help hot line. We triaged/referred patients and helped family members in crisis. It was overwhelming. The calls never stopped and many of them were gut wrenching. Last night on TV, I listened to a mental health professional try to explain the inadequacies of mental health policy nationally. She explained that for at least a couple of decades, treatment has been mostly about drugs and less about other treatment options. I witnessed this during my short time in the system. I hope this discussion continues and that we can improve funding which will enable mental health professionals bring to bear the full range of treatment options for the folks who need them. Think about that if you find yourself on the tax cutting bandwagon, advocating cutting services for folks like these...

 

I have been convinced for a long time that military style assault weapons should be banned for civilians. I believe the 9th circuit court of appeals got it right when they ruled that the framers intended guns were intended for a "well regulated militia". I understand that now, definition of these weapons will be challenging for lawmakers but this has to be part of how we change in hopes of preventing similar incidents. I consider myself a responsible gun owner, but if the definition at the end of the day includes my Glock 17, or my Winchester Model 70, so be it. They can have em.

 

Bottom line is we have to change. As a country we can do better than this. We have to try.

 

 

[matt_warfield]

And I will still say a mixed martial artist could have killed just as many school children in about the same time.

 

Treat the disease.

 

What a bunch of crap. If that skinny-assed punk got into the school w/o a gun it would have taken about 3 of those kids to crawl all over him and take out the maggot. Yea, well Jackie Chan could have killed as many - brilliant argument.

 

Bottom line - these shooters are cowards. A gun gives them perceived power that they can then take out whatever false retribution their tweaked minds have concocted. Guns are just way to available in our society.

 

I am not disagreeing with you in principle and will accept your insult, but experienced MMA COULD wreak havoc if they wanted. They don't because they are generally not mentally ill. And Jackie Chan would get his ass kicked by the top MMA people.

[AlpineK]

Here's a clear cut winner

 

[video:youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ceQBT6fPE4

[ivan]

 

Meanwhile, we know how to protect schools. The right personnel, executing the right tactics, and it's done. It might not be pretty, in a Mayberry kind of way, but what's pretty today is just a deadly illusion. Better to see broken illusions, than to pick up pieces of broken children.

meh. i teach on a sprawling campus. sure we gotta a cop, plus the main station down not more than 3 minutes away at 95 mph, sirens awailing - i wouldn't be surprised if a couple of my colleagues were even armed (2 ex-green berets on staff, reckon their hands would be enough ) - but w/ a thousand entrance/exits, folks all over the place at all hours, there's no castle-like illusions to be had - schools are supposed to be about openness and trust anyhow, and if there's a war-on-education, then in the name of winnning that war, a few good soldiers will likely have to die from time to time...that's why i got a helmet in my room and a fine fortress-plan

 

it's like thurber said: "there is no safety in numbers...nor in anything else."

[kevbone]

If they ban machine guns....then what are the people going to use to fight off the military when it comes to full blown civil war? Or to take back our government from the fascist pigs which is why the second amendment exists? The military gets machine guns....why not us?

[el jefe]

it's time to repeal the second amendment. it was clearly a bad idea that hasn't stood the test of time.

[kevbone]

Maybe they can repeal the first one too......

[KaskadskyjKozak]

it's time to repeal the second amendment. it was clearly a bad idea that hasn't stood the test of time.

 

LOL. Good luck with that.

[matt_warfield]

Let's start with nukes, then go to ballistic missiles, then RPGs, then IEDs, then assault rifles, then hunting rifles, then 45s, then 9 mils, then 357s, then 38s, then shotguns, then 22s, then crossbows, then longbows, then bb guns, then let's all tie our hands behind our backs. Left or right leaning, we all draw a line somewhere but we have had violence since the beginning of time and some of it will escape all laws and security.

Edited December 18, 2012 by matt_warfield

[ivan]

Let's start with nukes, then go to ballistic missiles, then RPGs, then IEDs, then assault rifles, then hunting rifles, then 45s, then 9 mils, then 357s, then 38s, then shotguns, then 22s, then crossbows, then longbows, then bb guns, then let's all tie our hands behind our backs. Left or right leaning, we all draw a line somewhere but we have had violence since the beginning of time and some of it will escape all laws and security.

seems like we've already hit most of the items on the start of your list w/o the ones at the bottom suffering any threat at all?

 

as to kev's question, the study of any guerilla war makes it obvious that most popular revolutions begin w/ seriously inferior weapons compared to the government, but that a variety of factors soon find the rebels w/ war-toys plenty-equal to the task at hand (them libyans n' syrians of late, for example, haven't taken to long to turn the tables, and the endless frustration in vietnam of course was that we could up the ante as much as we wanted w/ minimal return) - all americans having access to the same arsenal as da gubmint in order to forestall the apocalypse makes about as much sense as the folks that advocate the idea

[Off_White]

Thanks Ivan, that's a more reasoned response than the snark I decided not to post.

[ivan]

Thanks Ivan, that's a more reasoned response than the snark I decided not to post.

tvash's presence, near snoring on my bofa, no doubt explains my passionate perfidy

[matt_warfield]

I have been flippant as well. But the point remains that a Glock with three clips could do all the same damage as an assault rifle so all this fuss about gun control chaps my hide. It takes 2 seconds to change clips in a handgun.

 

I am a libtard in most areas but not in this one.

 

The mom had no business buying three guns when the son was unhinged.

 

Ironically, gun and ammo sales are skyrocketing cuz everybody is expecting new legislation. A little counterproductive.

[ivan]

Weighting the benefits and harms, it would be best for everyone if handguns were banned along with assault rifles. They save far fewer people than they hurt. Sorry, gun freaks. Your costly little hero fantasy is just too expensive for the rest of us.

[ivan]

Most gun makers are private, but Smith and Wesson is not - down 20% since the shooting. The majority owners of Freedom Arms, makers of the perps rifle, are unloading the company in the wake of the tragedy.

 

It seems that, from a political standpoint, shooting 20 6 year olds got the attention of even the Rfucks in congress, at least some of them, who now state they are willing to relook at gun control measures such as the assault weapons ban.

 

Military style weapons are big business (the reason why they are still legal). If I were a manufacturer, I'd be pretty nervous right about now.