Smokestacks at Smith Rocks

[MysticNacho]

I wonder just how close this plant would be, are they talking RIGHT NEXT to the park as in the neighboring farmland, or across the highway, etc? Anybody know?

[ 03-07-2002: Message edited by: MysticNacho ]

[Dru]

probably right where they wanted to build the golf course

[chucK]

That would be ironic wouldn't it? Eco group successfully fights off evil golf course and rich-people dwellings and is rewarded with a big smog-belching power plant instead.

Irony police please check my above statement.

[vegetablebelay]

quote:

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Originally posted by chucK:

That would be ironic wouldn't it? Eco group successfully fights off evil golf course and rich-people dwellings and is rewarded with a big smog-belching power plant instead.

Irony police please check my above statement.

---

Ok, your post checks out. Carry on.

[ 03-07-2002: Message edited by: vegetablebelay ]

[Dru]

hee hee images are not enabled in the access issues forum!

except for these

[vegetablebelay]

quote:

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Originally posted by Dru:

hee hee images are not enabled in the access issues forum!

except for these

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I wondered what was up.

[allthumbs]

[ 03-07-2002: Message edited by: trask ]

[Dru]

Seen on R&I online

http://www.rockandice.com/index.phtml?section=news_show&news_id=184

[scot'teryx]

smokestacks?

plumes of white smoke?

LAME

I'll sign the petition, and pass the word on

Thanks Dru

[max]

"it's safe to say the plant would intrude on the pristine environment at Smith Rocks"

[Dru]

i would only support such a plant if we could set a tyrolean from the stack to monkey face.

[crazyjizzy]

I was in the power plant buisness for years. Most plans are mearly pipedreams, and a 1500' "plume" is highly unlikely. Sighting considerations are enormous, and lastly, media reports are most often in error. I would say, that in reality, there may be a preliminary plan to build a gas turbine/steam turbine combo in the area near the highway, but not next to Smith. It is a little too early to worry, when things cost a million dollars per megawatt, plans evolve quite drastically.

[allison]

When this thread first appeared I got in touch with my buddy who lives in Bend, and he said this plant deal was already dead....anyone else hear that too?

[AJ]

I'd have a hard time believing this is going to happen. Power prices on the west coast are currently below $35/megawatt so nobody is building any new capacity. So many projects have been cancelled or put on hold in the past year I couldn't see how the economics would work out. If they did site a power plant anywhere it would be in close proximity to both an interstate natural gas transmission line and a major power transmission line. PGT's gas transmission line is closer to the Grasslands so I'd expect it would be in that area. Also, a 1500' white plume? Common', who are they kidding? Even the Centralia coal fired steam plant (about 1400 Mw) doesn't do that.

[Winter]

Here's something I got from the woman leading the charge:

If You Live in Central Oregon, Cogentrix Will Affect YouBy Mary Zemke, founder of STOP Cogentrix

By now most of us know about the North Carolina company attempting to invade Central Oregon, rob our resources and pollute our air. Armed with pertinent facts, the residents of Central Oregon are coming together in the most diverse coalition of determined citizens ever seen in this area. Ideologies range from cowboy to contractor, environmentalist to business owner, with every community, culture, age, and financial bracket represented.

What brings such a group together in harmony and agreement? A love for Central Oregon, this beautiful area that we are blessed to be a part of. We love the open spaces, the clear skies, the pure and precious water, and we are united in our commitment to protect these priceless treasures from greedy corporations and short-sighted elected officials.

At this point in time, Cogentrix has submitted three applications for the permits they must obtain before they can build their facility. Not one permits was accepted in the first go-round. The Application to the Energy Facility Siting Council (ASC) was deemed incomplete, with many areas of deficiency listed in a six-page letter from Cathy Vanhorn to Cogentrix. The Siting Council process cannot move forward until Cogentrix submits the missing information.

The DEQ permit was considered mostly complete, but Cogentrix violates air quality standards in the Mount Washington Class I area to such a degree that they need to either reduce plant size or reduce hours of operation to meet compliance standards. Although advised of these deficiencies by Thane Jennings of the Bend DEQ on January 31, 2002, Cogentrix has still not responded to these concerns.

The water right permit is by far the most controversial aspect of the Cogentrix project. The Initial Review of their application for 8 million gallons of water per day was deemed “unfavorable” and “BAD” by Cory Engels of the Water Resources Department for three specific reasons: 3/10/02 If You Live in Central Oregon, Cogentrix Will Affect You Page 2

1) The Cogentrix well site is hydraulically connected to the Crooked River and has the potential for substantial interference with stream flow. 2) No water usage is allowed from April 15 to September 30 in this area of the Deschutes Basin.3) The amount of water requested, 5,555 gallons per minute is not available at any time due to prior, senior water rights downstream.

Despite the seeming impossibility of granting a permit under these conditions, Cogentrix has been invited to participate in the mitigation process still under formulation. If they can mitigate their usage with other water rights or money, they may receive a water right for 12.38 cubic feet per second. At this point the permit has been placed on Administrative Hold until the mitigation rules are finalized.

From September 25 through the 28, Cogentrix ran a 72-hour well test using only one of the six proposed wells, yet by October 6, eight days later, the aquifer had only recovered 93%. Remember, the test was of only one of the six wells, running at less than half the rate proposed. No mitigation rules can compensate for the damage this one permit is capable of causing to hundreds of well owners, especially in nearby Crooked River Ranch. Central Oregon could find itself very quickly in the same dilemma as the town of Malin on the Oregon/California border where California wells decreased the quantity of high quality water and lowered the water table in just four days.

Desert aquifers are not made for heavy industrial use, and due to their proven connection to surface water (USGS Report 00-4162), there has been a moratorium on the issuance of new water rights in this area for years. Our streams are already over-appropriated and run below legal levels at times. Water mitigation rules so far proposed will do nothing to preserve the aquifer and nothing to preserve long-standing wells from going dry. Let’s discuss mitigation for a moment: Mitigation is basically what companies do when they want to exceed the established standards. It allows them to damage one area beyond a reasonable degree because they are doing something in another area to make up for it. 3/10/02 If You Live in Central Oregon, Cogentrix Will Affect You Page 3

In the case of the water mitigation rules being discussed currently, we all need to be aware that if canal piping and lining is approved for mitigation, then Central Oregon will be a double loser. Canals, which leak about 46% of the water that flows through them, are a significant source of recharge both to the aquifer and the stream flow, and this was determined by the US Geological study done in 2001, so to line or pipe the canals, and then call it mitigation is, well, it is just bogus. There is only one true form of mitigation: Putting water back into the aquifer or stream that would not have otherwise gone there. Period.

I will end the water discussion with one more detail: Cogentrix is taking water from the Opal Springs formation, therefore they are trying to take some of the top 3% of the water in the world and destroy it for industrial use. With their zero-discharge system, not one bit gets recycled, and that which goes into the atmosphere in the plume is contaminated with the chemicals used to alter the Ph for their cooling towers. This is just plain immoral.

Many of you have asked what to do. Here are 10 ways you can help STOP Cogentrix:1) Get on the STOP Cogentrix Contact List by phone or e-mail for updates. (541) 475-4446 and stopcogentrix@hotmail.com 2) Sign the STOP Cogentrix Petition on paper or at www.PetitionOnline.com/Grizzly3) Send a STOP Cogentrix letter packet or post cards to permitting agencies and elected officials or write your own.4) Attend important meetings and hearings.5) Donate some money to STOP Cogentrix at P.O. Box 976, Madras, OR 97741.6) Send letters to the editor to local papers.7) Display a bumper sticker.8) Put up a sign.9) VOTE in the upcoming elections.10) Spread the word to everyone that we must STOP Cogentrix! It is not right that one company can take so much, do so much damage, and provide so little benefit to the area.

[hollyclimber]

The plant would be only 9 miles from the park, towards Madras.

This proposal is not dead. In fact, a second company has started making proposals for a power plant in Redmond.

Its good that the Access Fund knows about the issue, but I am not sure yet what they are doing (I am going to find out).

Also, there is going to be a meeting on the issue at Smith in April, so I will try to post the date of that meeting.

Finally, I have a feeling that it would help the Stop Congentrix organization to receive some donations. So, be thinking about what kind of fundraiser we can do. Maybe I will get with the people who work on Spring Thing and see if we can do some sort of fundraiser then.

This could really be huge...do you want to be on the backside staring at the mountains and the plume from the factory? I prefer just the mountains myself.

If you want a copy of the packet of letters that all ready for you to modify and add your name, email me. While some are most appropriate for Oregon residents (i.e. letters to legislators) there are plenty of agencies that frequent out of state users can write to in good conscience.

ask for the letters from me at hollyclimber@hotmail.com

[crazyjizzy]

Nine miles is along ways, it's not a coal burner, it's a natural gas plant. I would guess that it will take up about ten acres, and be about eighty feet high. There are farm buildings much bigger. It really should have no impact on the park at all. A more reasonable arguement against it would have to do with its impact on ground water. Save yourself for the good fight.

[AlpineK]

****** Warning ******

Getting in an arguement with CJZ about power plants is not for the faint of hart.

[jon]

I don't really want to play devil's advocate here but I almost agree with crazyjz, this might not be worth the fight. Sounds like from the environmental impact of water usage alone building this plant won't be feasible. Fact of the matter is most people in this country use power which has to be generated somewhere, drive a car which requires gas that has to be drilled from somewhere, have a house usually made of wood which comes from trees somewhere, or brick and metal that has to be mined. No you can't have a dam and use the energy to pump the water back up more efficiently than it was generated in some sort of cyclical magical neverending energy production, forgot the thermodynamics term for this. Additionally if it weren't for a the climbing at Smith most of you probably wouldn't have heard about this let alone give a shit. I'm not trying to put anyone down here, and I truely believe that it is our responsibility to audit relationships between our government and private industry in how our natural resources are used/exploited, just make sure you educate yourself and understand the issue before you fly out of the gates swinging.

CH4 + 2O2 = 2H2O + CO2

[RStewbone]

I live here and I'm upset by the comments on this thread. 11 million gallons of water a day when Bend has already shut down most of its canals and will limit growth in five years due to a lack of water? You Washington mold growers don't freaking get it. I get 9 inches of rain annually at my house 6 miles from Sisters and right now annually we have 50 % of average precip and this drouhgt is 2 years old already. Every tiny drop over here is bickered over as it bubbles out of the ground and offers hope to a parched land. Do you all own stock in power companys and sit and pat your fat guts as your administration destroys your world. I hope you owned Enron stock. Stay in Washington and build your powerplant at that shithole called Frenchman Coulee. Thankyou

[Paul_detrick]

It rains 7 inchs a year at this shithole, but we have lots of water for crops, because someone had the forsight to build a big dan that nobody wanted. Now we grow more crops than most states, and the project is not complete. And where do you think all your power comes from, I'll bet alot of it comes from just north of our shithole, so what our state should do is cut your ass off and than see how you like it. I wish they would come up here, if they can bulid a place like the Gorge, and we deal with it, we could use the taxes from that plant. A resident of Grant Co.

[offwidthclimber]

quote:

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Originally posted by Paul detrick:

It rains 7 inchs a year at this shithole, but we have lots of water for crops, because someone had the forsight to build a big dan that nobody wanted. Now we grow more crops than most states, and the project is not complete.

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if those jackasses really had foresight, they'd have realized central washington (and the entire great basin for that matter) is just a giant fucking dustbowl sagebrush scrubland, prone to droughts and not worth the fucking effort. i could quote plenty of sources tearing the columbia basin irrigation project a new one, including scientists and the colville tribe, who probably got fucked more than anyone by the dam(s) (with the exception of salmon).

and plenty of people still don't want that dam, or any of the other snake/columbia dams.

i'm not saying that we should tear it/them out or that this will bring back the salmon and restore the ecosystems (which it may not). i'm just saying that "foresight" is not the appropriate term for the decision to tame the columbia/snake river systems. with regards to power, flood control and irrigation, the USA and northwest would do just fine without them (except for those farmers who've been hooked up by the feds because of the dams).

peace.

[Paul_detrick]

nicely said from someone NOT from eastern washington.

[rbw1966]

quote:

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Originally posted by Paul detrick:

nicely said from someone NOT from eastern washington.

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I don't live in the ozone layer either (nuch). Does that mean I should have no voice in its preservation?

[offwidthclimber]

quote:

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Originally posted by Paul detrick:

nicely said from someone NOT from eastern washington.

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i may not be from eastern washington, but i grew up on the dry sagebrush steppe of southern idaho and have lived on the sonoran desert in phoenix, arizona. does that qualify me to talk about the absurdity of the columbia basin project? and trust me, the absurdity goes far beyond just building the dam. the politics behind that project are/were pretty *interesting*

for anyone interested a good read on the matter is "a river lost - the life and death of the columbia" by blaine harden.

peace.