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keenwesh

compressor route chopped

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Why do you think their statement it is misleading?

 

i might have the time and inclination to answer your question, but not right now.

 

I thought you were all for removing bolts on climbs where bolts are deemed unnecessary.

 

i said i'm sorry. plus, i think you broke my hand.

 

 

but seriously, yes i was in favor of removing some bolts at index, on crack climbs, placed in the last 10 to 15 years. i posted both here and rcnw, and really lost my interest in doing so after hearing the divided opinion. yes i actually did take in what people said, and realized it would be a divisive act over a few pounds of metal that really rarely bother me, and only if i get on my high-horse!

 

you ok btw?

 

You actually listened to other's viewpoint and then changed your behavior based on that new information!? That is almost unpatriotic.

 

I didn't really hurt your hand did I? I iced last night and feel quite a bit better today - should be okay.

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These guys chopped the route to satisfy a very ego centric '1st world' need...but didn't apparently think much about how it would effect the locals who have to make a living down there. They don't live there. We don't live there. Maybe the locals are all for the chop? Funny...nobody seems to have bothered to ask what they want concerning the mountain that's in their back yard, not ours.

 

Rolo Garibotti does a pretty good job of dispelling the whole "locals" thing over on SuperTopo and other places. The city of El Chalten has only even existed since 1985, and almost all the "guiding" and other such services people have referred to are trekking/hiking companies or guiding up easy routes on the easiest mountains.

 

By the way, in Kruk and Kennedy's statement it sounds like they were met with resounding approval from a group of Argentinian alpinists they encountered.

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So one handful of Argentinian climbers approved, and a town of locals that's only been there for 25 years doesn't count, apparently.

 

Hey, maybe it was popular locally? These guys sure as hell never bothered to ask. Sound's like there was at least some local objection, however:

 

"A mob of irate locals showed up at their cabin in the nearby town of El Chaltén, papering the windows with posters bearing slogans like "Out of El Chaltén" and "Jason and Hayden Go Home!"

 

Garibotti is hardly a 'neutral' source on the topic.

Edited by tvashtarkatena

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So one handful of Argentinian climbers approved, and a town of locals that's only been there for 25 years doesn't count, apparently.

 

Hey, maybe it was popular locally? These guys sure as hell never bothered to ask. Sound's like there was at least some local objection, however:

 

"A mob of irate locals showed up at their cabin in the nearby town of El Chaltén, papering the windows with posters bearing slogans like "Out of El Chaltén" and "Jason and Hayden Go Home!"

 

Garibotti is hardly a 'neutral' source on the topic.

 

A lot of those "locals" are just other foreign climbers living there for a portion of the year.

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Fair enough, but it certainly didn't seem to be as 'popular' move among whatever motley group of locals do hang there, as your post seemed to suggest. In fact, the opposite reaction seems to be closer to reality. I don't live there, however...and that's kind of my point.

 

I think 'do no harm' would have been the best call, as it often is in places where you are a visitor. Keeps the unintended consequences at bay.

Edited by tvashtarkatena

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I didn't really hurt your hand did I? I iced last night and feel quite a bit better today - should be okay.

 

hand ok, you're on my team next bar-room brawl.

 

glad you're better.

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I think this mountain is better off without this route - but I also wish Kruk and Kennedy did a better job at explaining their rationale. Couldn't they simply have said, "We grew up hearing from our mentors that this should be done, so when the time came and we could do something about it, we stepped up."

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here's a good video showing the ragini route, or the new standard way up the mountain. Tunneling through those mushrooms looks wild! I wonder how well those "wings" worked.

 

[video:youtube]

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May the "fair means" fever raging in Patagonia infect Exit 38 and every venue of sport climbing on the west coast. If climbing a hostile spire of vertical rock and ice with a trail of bolts and a generator is pathetic, how can bolts placed on rappel with a Bosch 5 minutes from I-90 survive for decades? We have been shown the future, and Messner claps.

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Rolo Garibotti managed to get possibly the greatest ensemble of climbers to ever collectively put their signatures to anything in support of the de-bolting:

 

http://www.climbmagazine.com/news/2012/02/cerro-torre-petition

 

We, some of the many climbers who have devoted much energy over the last decades to climbing in the Fitz Roy and Cerro Torre massifs, shaping the region's climbing history, are in full support of the bolt removal:

 

Jorge Ackermann, Tomy Aguilo, Conrad Anker, Bjorn-Eivind Artun, Trym Atle Saeland, Scott Backes, Scott Bennett, Bjarte Bø, Carlos Botazzi, Martin Boysen, John Bragg, Ben Bransby, Chris Brazeau, Phil Burke, Tommy Caldwell, Ramiro Calvo, Ben Campbell-Kelly, Rab Carrington, Dave Carman, Robert Caspersen, Andy Cave, Yvon Chouinard, Carlos Comesaña, Kelly Cordes, Inaki Coussirat, Pete Crew, Sebastian De la Cruz, Alejandro Di Paola, Leo Dickinson, Ben Ditto, Jim Donini, Martin Donovan, Dana Drummond, Magnus Eriksson, Gabriel Fava, Nico Favresse, Silvia Fitzpatrick, Ralf Gantzhorn, Rolando Garibotti, Stefan Gatt, Chris Geisler, Jon Gleason, Gustavo Glickman, Milena Gomez, Colin Haley, Brian Hall, Kennan Harvey, Jorge Insua, Peter Janschek, Hans Johnstone, Neil Kauffman, Joel Kauffman, Hayden Kennedy, Michael Kennedy, Andy Kirkpatrick, Jason Kruk, Ole Lied, Whit Magro, Klemen Mali, Carlitos Molina, Marius Morstad, Avo Naccachian, Fermin Olaechea, Marius Olsen, Ian Parnell, Luciano Pera, Korra Pesce, Doerte Pietron, Michal Pitelka, Kate Rutherford, Mikey Schaefer, Stephan Siegrist, Pedro Skvarca, Zack Smith, Bruno Sourzac, Rick Sylvester, Jim Toman, Doug Tompkins, Jvan Tresch, Roberto Treu, Sean Villanueva, Adam Wainwright, Eamon Walsh, Jon Walsh, Josh Wharton, Andres Zegers

 

We also support the removal of the Compressor Route bolts:

 

Vince Anderson, Chris Bonington, Mick Fowler, Steve House, Heinz Mariacher, Reinhold Messner, Paul Pritchard, Sonnie Trotter, Mark Twight

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Celebrity endorsements always influence my decisions!

 

Of course, even if the bolts were still in place, I'm not likely to be heading down there to do the route, so I don't really have a dog in the fight. I'm fine either way.

 

Thanks for the laugh Pope, exit 38=Cerro Torre is quite the leap. You should make a point of getting your name signed onto that petition, and then get one started for the North Bend crags.

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