JDCH Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 Hello! A couple of friends and I are planning on going for Rainier this thurs-sun weather window that looks amazing. I am just trying to determine what the best route would be at this time of year as far as objective hazards are concerned, I am trained in avy safety and crevasse rescue, but I just want to minimize the time potentially wasted on the wrong route. We are all experienced, but only one in the party has ever climbed it before. Thanks! James Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sobo Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 If it were me, and looking to not waste time, I'd pick... 1st choice: Kautz 2nd choice: either of the Fuhrer routes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaskadskyjKozak Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 If it were me, and looking to not waste time, I'd pick... 1st choice: Kautz 2nd choice: either of the Fuhrer routes What about Gib ledges? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sobo Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 Gib Ledges always has an element of objective danger greater than the Kautz or the Fuhrer routes, IMO. I got the impression from the OP that he was looking to minimize that element. Hence, my route suggestions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 I hear you, Sobo (I think you may be referring to the fact that when the sun hits there may be rocks falling on the Ledge). However, if lingering AV hazard is a concern as in where it may have been a few days since a windy snow event I think the Gib Ledges may present less objective danger than those routes where you spend a longer time in the big gullies. I've been across the Ledges twice and thought it was a pretty good way to go. I've only attempted the Finger, and only once, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete_H Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 Definitly Thermogenesis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keenwesh Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 yeah any of the willis wall routes. objective danger on those is basically nonexistant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDCH Posted November 29, 2011 Author Share Posted November 29, 2011 Thanks everyone! I think the Kautz glacier route is looking pretty good so long as the avy hazard stays less than considerable. how hard is the routefinding on the gib ledges? That was my initial concern with that route, being early in the winter, I thought the routefinding might be more challenging than on a route like the kautz. Pete, I think I will save thermogenesis for a subsequent attempt... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DPS Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 (edited) A couple of things to remember: The weather changes fast this time of year and usually for the worse. Choosing a route that starts from Camp Muir gives you a weather-proof shelter should the weather completely go to hell. There are maps available from the rangers that have compass bearings from prominent land marks on the Muir Snow field to aid in descending from Muir in a white-out. Choosing a route up FF or Kautz puts you 'out there' a bit more and I would question the integrity of the snow bridges on the Nisqually. If you decide to start from Camp Muir, your choices are basically Gib Ledges, Ingraham Direct, and Disappointment Cleaver. Gib Ledges could be a good choice, but I would make sure Gibralter Rock is well iced and isn't shedding. Ingraham Glacier would likely be melted out into an impossible maze. DC could be good, but when I attempted it this time many years ago, the Ingraham Glacier was melted out and made it impossible to access the Cleaver. Edited November 29, 2011 by DPS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DPS Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 how hard is the routefinding on the gib ledges? The route finding should be fine. The exit shute might be icy and the crevasses above Gib Rock will be thinly bridged and weak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sobo Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 I hear you, Sobo (I think you may be referring to the fact that when the sun hits there may be rocks falling on the Ledge). However, if lingering AV hazard is a concern as in where it may have been a few days since a windy snow event I think the Gib Ledges may present less objective danger than those routes where you spend a longer time in the big gullies. I've been across the Ledges twice and thought it was a pretty good way to go. I've only attempted the Finger, and only once, though. Matt, yes, the rockfall and other shit coming off Gibraltar Rock was what I was on about. I've heard that it can become quite the bowling alley at times. The only "bowling alley" on the Kautz is turning the dogleg at Hazard, and much of that short-duration exposure to icefall can be overcome by rapping off the wall a little further downhill of the dogleg and scooting across the bottom of the chute to the protection of the ice ridge on climber's right. Doing the rap-and-scoot option puts you further below the blast zone of shit coming off the Hazard Icefall, and you're not in the chute proper at all, but at its bottom end, which can give you a few more seconds of reaction time if evasive maneuvers become necessary. After that, it's a cake walk. I've only seen one small slough/slide on the Kautz above Hazard (done the Kautz a half-dozen times or more), and it was actually pretty far climber's left of the main route, practically on the Success Cleaver route. I've done FF once, and the Thumb once as well. They are quick routes to the top of the Wapowety, sheltered from stuff while you're below the Finger and Thumb proper, and not exposed to shit once on top of the Wapowety (except the odd crevasse), which is why I threw these two routes out there for consideration by JDCH as well. I've never done the Gib Ledges, but it was on my list a while back. Now I'm just an old coot that'll probably never get up it. I just remember reading about Willi Unsoeld's catastrophe there, and the few deaths and other accidents that have occurred on that route (most notably at the big slide) over the past 10 to 12-odd years and figured that maybe that might be beyond the level of fun that JDCH and Co. were up for this weekend. Mebbe I'm just an old, scared fuck now... I tell ya, though... that Nisqualley Icefall route. That looks to be a hoot. I remember when Hannah (Pandora) soloed that a few years back. That was sweet. Whatever happened to her anyway? She drank all my wine at a Rope-Up one year and then took off... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Choada_Boy Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 Definitly Thermogenesis. Having skied Thermogenesis under a full moon on New Year Eve a few years back, I can't tell you how much fun it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougd Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 how hard is the routefinding on the gib ledges? The route finding should be fine. The exit shute might be icy and the crevasses above Gib Rock will be thinly bridged and weak. +1 looks to be a nice ramp into the chute @ end of the ledges... It's worth a look see imo... http://www.nps.gov/webcams-mora/mountain.jpg d Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougd Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 . I've never done the Gib Ledges, but it was on my list a while back. Now I'm just an old coot that'll probably never get up it. I just remember reading about Willi Unsoeld's catastrophe there, Awww c'mon now. I'm a lil older now (57) and I did it in early June this year... It was really good fun then with all the snow (ice) piled up on the route. Granted, it's a different route now. Willi was killed while descending the aptly named cadaver gap btw... d Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sobo Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 Willi was killed while descending the aptly named cadaver gap btw...Really? I guess I'm a little messed up there. I thought he was killed while leading the Evergreen students up the Gib Ledges route. My bad. Mebbe that was their ascent route, before the tradegy...?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-spotter Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 Definitly Thermogenesis. Having skied Thermogenesis under a full moon on New Year Eve a few years back, I can't tell you how much fun it is. And that's important, since the best route on Rainier is the one having the most fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billcoe Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 Least amount of objective hazards? What do Rainer regulars think about the Emmons Glacier- Camp Schurman way ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DPS Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Least amount of objective hazards? What do Rainer regulars think about the Emmons Glacier- Camp Schurman way ? Probably fine but winter road closures can add up to 24 miles RT if going in via White River. Roads are plowed to Paradise all year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sobo Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Yah, Bill... whaddarya, new? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sobo Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Definitly Thermogenesis. Having skied Thermogenesis under a full moon on New Year Eve a few years back, I can't tell you how much fun it is. And that's important, since the best route on Rainier is the one having the most fun. Were there official timers? And a dog...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 yeah way too much approach tax, go Muir. Least amount of objective hazards? What do Rainer regulars think about the Emmons Glacier- Camp Schurman way ? Probably fine but winter road closures can add up to 24 miles RT if going in via White River. Roads are plowed to Paradise all year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sobo Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 approach taxsobo likes this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billcoe Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Yah, Bill... whaddarya, new? LOL, was thinking early season? Low snow level? Nah, nevermind. If no one's been up there..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Off_White Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Willi was killed while descending the aptly named cadaver gap btw... Correct, along with Janie Diepenbrock Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sobo Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Yah, Bill... whaddarya, new? LOL, was thinking early season? Low snow level? Nah, nevermind. If no one's been up there..... Early season??? Did you READ the thread title...?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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